Bio load, difference of opinion

[dmathis]

Greetings! I am new here and need some input because of a difference of opinion between two "aquarium experts"!
I recently acquired a 150 gallon tank that was/is fully operational. It had been set up for about 5 years by its previous owner. I have two professionals who I consult with regarding the maintenance and care of my tank. I have asked both if I have space/bio load capability for additional fish. I have been told that I am probably maxed out by one and that I have plenty of room by the other.

I have the following set up:
Fluval canister filter, 2 protein skimmers, large bio wheel.
Approximately 200 pounds of live rock.
And the following live stock:
Clown-Cinnamon Clown 3"
Dwarf Angel fish-Flame Angel 3-4"
Eel-Snowflake Eel 10"
Filefish-Matted Filefish 3-4"
Lionfish-Volitan Lionfish 6-7"
Triggerfish-Humu Picasso Triggerfish 5-6"
Wrasse-Lyretail Wrasse 6-7"
Damsel-Three Stripe Damsel 2"
Chromis(2)-Golden Yellow Chromis 2.5"
Star fish-Brittle serpant star Adult, size hard to determine
High Fin Drone 7"

More fish or no? What say you?

 

[brandon429]

the good part about bioload questions is there's a finite measure to end all debates. what does range is fish behavior, territoriality, and fish experts can chime in on that regarding the projected mix. The definitive answer to how much bioload a tank can run is however much will not give you free ammonia in your setup. So, as you add past the certainly-able to nitrify mark, use a -non- API ammonia test kit, salifert since you are pushing it and need accuracy, or red sea even, and see if +1 fish at a time registers free ammonia in your system after 24 hours, if not, proceed. Ive never seen any amount of fish be able to overcome six square football fields of live surface area live rock, not even including live sand. I think the preclusions w be behavioral/tank cleaning upkeep and not raw ammonia but at least there is a test we can run to tell. no guessing is required for the matter.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Agreed with above. If your levels are fine than your bioload is being handled.

However,compatibility is another matter altogether. You have some aggressive and predatory fish so adding more may prove difficult.

 

[dmathis]

the good part about bioload questions is there's a finite measure to end all debates. what does range is fish behavior, territoriality, and fish experts can chime in on that regarding the projected mix. The definitive answer to how much bioload a tank can run is however much will not give you free ammonia in your setup. So, as you add past the certainly-able to nitrify mark, use a -non- API ammonia test kit, salifert since you are pushing it and need accuracy, or red sea even, and see if +1 fish at a time registers free ammonia in your system after 24 hours, if not, proceed. Ive never seen any amount of fish be able to overcome six square football fields of live surface area live rock, not even including live sand. I think the preclusions w be behavioral/tank cleaning upkeep and not raw ammonia but at least there is a test we can run to tell. no guessing is required for the matter.

Thank you for the input. Very helpful. The expert who recommended more fish recommended a couple of tangs to assist with cleanup (alge). I am thinking a convict and purple. I am also considering a Clown Trigger. Of those three, who should be introduced first/last?

 

[brandon429]

fish are my least ability I must defer! itd help if I had a reef bigger than 1 gallon, then id know about fish. im merely a bacteria guy. if I had a reef big enough for one fish itd be one of those cool white clowns, someday lol

 

[twilliard]

@3FordFamily
Might be able to give some insight.
I feel Brandon covered the bioload in regards to Amonia

 

[4FordFamily]

So purple tang is a good fit as they are pretty aggressive and can hold their own. I cannot speak to convict tangs as I have no personal experience but based on my experience with other fish of the same family, it may be OK although it will be VERY prone to ich and parasites whereas most of your other fish would likely be able to fight them off. Lionfish are a high bio load proposition, as are triggers. I would not consider your tank overstocked personally but as mentioned previously it depends completely on your parameters. AND even if it is overstocked, water changes can bring things down. So long as no ammonia is produced you should be in the clear. I overstock the heck out of my tanks to minimize aggression but as a result I need to do large water changes. To me, it is worth the effort.

Clown triggers are beautiful and can be great additions but it may not be welcomed by an existing Humu Trigger. BUT if you overcome this hurdle, there is no guarantee that it will not go postal one night, could be a couple weeks or could be a decade - but it's well documented that sometimes they decide overnight that they do not wish to have tank mates and murder them all while they sleep. The only one that would be safe almost certainly is the lionfish although I guarantee a clown trigger could find a way to kill them.

I've personally witnessed clown triggers with somewhat non-aggressive tankmates in the past for years without issue. The stories I have heard are all anecdotal, as I have never known someone personally with this experience. This reminds me of the stories of sohal tangs and immense aggression - in my PERSONAL experience, they are NOT the aggressive monsters everyone reports on forums. The stories are really just 1 or 2 stories repeated by 30 members frequently. My sohal tang does not even bother my 2" tangs that he is housed with. He did hammer a 4" Carribean blue tang for a few weeks but gave up on it without any damage done to the fish. Had this been a Powder Blue tang or aggressive Achilles, the personal vendetta would NOT rest until the other fish was dead, and the harassment would have been amplified by several orders of magnitude. This has been my experience with PAST sohal tangs I have owned as well. Thus, in MY opinion, Sohal tangs have a bad reputation and they do not deserve it.

I sometimes wonder if this is the case with clown triggers, because I have not seen ANY aggression from them unless aggravated first. The risk is up to you. My stories are JUST as anecdotal as the stories heard about both species going postal - so take it ALL with a grain of salt.

 

[dmathis]

So purple tang is a good fit as they are pretty aggressive and can hold their own. I cannot speak to convict tangs as I have no personal experience but based on my experience with other fish of the same family, it may be OK although it will be VERY prone to ich and parasites whereas most of your other fish would likely be able to fight them off. Lionfish are a high bio load proposition, as are triggers. I would not consider your tank overstocked personally but as mentioned previously it depends completely on your parameters. AND even if it is overstocked, water changes can bring things down. So long as no ammonia is produced you should be in the clear. I overstock the heck out of my tanks to minimize aggression but as a result I need to do large water changes. To me, it is worth the effort.

Clown triggers are beautiful and can be great additions but it may not be welcomed by an existing Humu Trigger. BUT if you overcome this hurdle, there is no guarantee that it will not go postal one night, could be a couple weeks or could be a decade - but it's well documented that sometimes they decide overnight that they do not wish to have tank mates and murder them all while they sleep. The only one that would be safe almost certainly is the lionfish although I guarantee a clown trigger could find a way to kill them.

I've personally witnessed clown triggers with somewhat non-aggressive tankmates in the past for years without issue. The stories I have heard are all anecdotal, as I have never known someone personally with this experience. This reminds me of the stories of sohal tangs and immense aggression - in my PERSONAL experience, they are NOT the aggressive monsters everyone reports on forums. The stories are really just 1 or 2 stories repeated by 30 members frequently. My sohal tang does not even bother my 2" tangs that he is housed with. He did hammer a 4" Carribean blue tang for a few weeks but gave up on it without any damage done to the fish. Had this been a Powder Blue tang or aggressive Achilles, the personal vendetta would NOT rest until the other fish was dead, and the harassment would have been amplified by several orders of magnitude. Thus, in MY opinion, Sohal tangs have a bad reputation and they do not deserve it.

I sometimes wonder if this is the case with clown triggers, because I have not seen ANY aggression from them unless aggravated first. The risk is up to you. My stories are JUST as anecdotal as the stories heard about both species going postal - so take it ALL with a grain of salt.

Thank you. Any words of advice on what order these fish should be introduced into the aquarium, or does that matter?

 

[4FordFamily]

Thank you. Any words of advice on what order these fish should be introduced into the aquarium, or does that matter?

So from an aggression perspective I would say simultaneously - means that the new additions should theoretically be less "singled out" From a bioload perspective, this advice stinks.

BUT this is how I do it, personally. For what it is worth.

 

[eatbreakfast]

I would be careful adding a clown trigger. As stated above the huma huma may take issue, but they can be housed together.

While I have seen peaceful clown triggers, I have also seen some insanely aggressive ones. As with most Tetradonts personality is case by case. Also, a full grown clown trigger will be pushiing the limits of a 150, they get surprisingly large.

A purple tang should be fine as should a convict. Just be aware convicts have are delicate their first few weeks and seem to be particularly susceptible to internal parasites. Convicts are also more peaceful than their congeners.