Bolus dosing

GARRIGA

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Is there any problems if I revert back to kalkwasser at night and keep bolus dose for the morning? Obviously I will back out of the bolus dose by half and then see where my dkh lands.

Any feedback will be appreciated.
An option would be running a Fuge or ATS at night and continue with current anything else you are dosing as a means to just increase pH at night. Only solution that worked for me and will be running it 24/7 based purely off shutting lights off if pH exceeds a predetermined value yet to be determined.
 

Jari81

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Just so I understand, you went from FM KH mix to your own bicarbonate:carb mix and your dose amount did not change?

If that is the case how much of bicarbonate/carb did you mix per 5L?
FM KH is 500g per 5L and I believe this gives 5000 dkh /l (I may be wrong).

I am not sure how much of 4:1 bicarbonate/carb is required to get the same potency or if it is even possible to mix…
Also, exactly 400g of bicarb + 100g of the same bicarb baked in the oven for over an hour.

I was dosing 385ml of the Fauna product and am now dosing 370ml of the new mix.
PH-swing is the same as before 7.9 to above 8.25. Also the polyp extension stayed the same as when switching to Bolus.

I will keep trying it until the winter months come, and then reassess.
I'm certainly enjoying not having to deal with clogged lines, like when dosing Kalk or other high PH solutions.

Also I'm not seeing the big PH highs as promised with this method, but the nightly lows are certainly better, at least now in the summer.
 

reefluvrr

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Also, exactly 400g of bicarb + 100g of the same bicarb baked in the oven for over an hour.

I was dosing 385ml of the Fauna product and am now dosing 370ml of the new mix.
PH-swing is the same as before 7.9 to above 8.25. Also the polyp extension stayed the same as when switching to Bolus.

I will keep trying it until the winter months come, and then reassess.
I'm certainly enjoying not having to deal with clogged lines, like when dosing Kalk or other high PH solutions.

Also I'm not seeing the big PH highs as promised with this method, but the nightly lows are certainly better, at least now in the summer.
Ate you seeing any bump in pH immediately after dumping in the bolus of bicarbonate? I just tried it this morning with a bolus of fauna marin KH bicarbonate. I did not get a pH bump right away. I will try again next few days to see if pH will go up with bolus.
 

Jari81

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Ate you seeing any bump in pH immediately after dumping in the bolus of bicarbonate? I just tried it this morning with a bolus of fauna marin KH bicarbonate. I did not get a pH bump right away. I will try again next few days to see if pH will go up with bolus.

For me, it peaks right about the time I turn off the T5's in my hybrid setups and switch to a blue spectrum in the evening. I think a big part of the promised effect, is just going full blast with the lights in the morning without ramp up. Which practically also mimics how people have been running metal halides in the past.

At least this method is newb friendly, you can screw far less up then e.g. running some high ph solution and god forbid trusting an Alk-Monitor for adjustments.

1720545115081.png
 

Yazannreef

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An option would be running a Fuge or ATS at night and continue with current anything else you are dosing as a means to just increase pH at night. Only solution that worked for me and will be running it 24/7 based purely off shutting lights off if pH exceeds a predetermined value yet to be determined.
Hi,
I already have a Algae scrubber on reverse cycle. It doesn't do much for pH really.

What is the negative of dosing kalk at night?
 

Pod_01

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For me, it peaks right about the time I turn off the T5's in my hybrid setups and switch to a blue spectrum in the evening. I think a big part of the promised effect, is just going full blast with the lights in the morning without ramp up. Which practically also mimics how people have been running metal halides in the past.

At least this method is newb friendly, you can screw far less up then e.g. running some high ph solution and god forbid trusting an Alk-Monitor for adjustments.

1720545115081.png
Out of curiosity, did you measure your Alk after dosing the bicarbonate/carb mixture and few additional measurements during the day? Maybe 6 hours apart…

We are all curious if clean bicarbonate/carb behaves like the FM secret Alk mix.

Also did you add any of the trace elements from the FM Balling light set (Trace 3)?

As an aside the only time I get pH boost with BOLUS is if I open the windows.
I guess I have broken BOLUS…. and am experiencing the old pH syndrome LOL…
 

GARRIGA

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Hi,
I already have a Algae scrubber on reverse cycle. It doesn't do much for pH really.

What is the negative of dosing kalk at night?
Wasn't aware you had algae already and not saying it's wrong to dose pH at night.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Hi,
I already have a Algae scrubber on reverse cycle. It doesn't do much for pH really.

What is the negative of dosing kalk at night?

Dosing high pH additives at night serves to stabilize pH the most. Dosing any alk additives during the day serves to stabilize alk the most.
 

reefluvrr

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I had been bolus dosing ESV B ionic two part for that period of over 4 weeks. I definitely see the jump in pH before me light goes on as can be seen from my image of yesterday's pH graph.
1000002468.jpg


You can see the immediate bump in pH then a drop about 20 minutes later. As the day progresses the pH continues to creep up with the light before it drops back down when lights are off.

ESV B ionic uses a combination of both Carbonate and bicarbonate for their Alk solution.

This morning was my 1st time trying Fauna Marin balling since I finished my ESV B ionic solution.
I am surprised that the pH did not immediately rise up with the bolus of Fauna Marin bicarbonate bolus. Here is the pH screen of this morning.

1000002469.jpg

The bolus was added around 7 a.m. this time, there was no jump on pH but actually a drop in pH before the lights slowly raised it back up. Maybe of my dosing system with ESV which has Carbonate "broken" my buffer system? Now I have to wait a couple weeks to try to repair it with bicarbonate bolus? Only time will tell, but reading what others had said they did not see any immediate pH rise kinda worries me.

Any thoughts?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I had been bolus dosing ESV B ionic two part for that period of over 4 weeks. I definitely see the jump in pH before me light goes on as can be seen from my image of yesterday's pH graph.
1000002468.jpg


You can see the immediate bump in pH then a drop about 20 minutes later. As the day progresses the pH continues to creep up with the light before it drops back down when lights are off.

ESV B ionic uses a combination of both Carbonate and bicarbonate for their Alk solution.

This morning was my 1st time trying Fauna Marin balling since I finished my ESV B ionic solution.
I am surprised that the pH did not immediately rise up with the bolus of Fauna Marin bicarbonate bolus. Here is the pH screen of this morning.

1000002469.jpg

The bolus was added around 7 a.m. this time, there was no jump on pH but actually a drop in pH before the lights slowly raised it back up. Maybe of my dosing system with ESV which has Carbonate "broken" my buffer system? Now I have to wait a couple weeks to try to repair it with bicarbonate bolus? Only time will tell, but reading what others had said they did not see any immediate pH rise kinda worries me.

Any thoughts?

Bolus dosing of sodium carbonate (the normal B-ionic) is expected to have a considerable instantaneous pH boost. If you add 1.4 dKH worth of the alk, the boost is around 0.35 pH units. More if you start at lower pH and less at higher starting pH. It also depends on alk so it will be about what I stated at 7 dKH and much less starting at 11 dKH.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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of my dosing system with ESV which has Carbonate "broken" my buffer system?

FM assertions aside, buffer systems never break. That statement of theirs is seriously lacking in reality.
 

Jari81

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Out of curiosity, did you measure your Alk after dosing the bicarbonate/carb mixture and few additional measurements during the day? Maybe 6 hours apart…

We are all curious if clean bicarbonate/carb behaves like the FM secret Alk mix.

Also did you add any of the trace elements from the FM Balling light set (Trace 3)?

As an aside the only time I get pH boost with BOLUS is if I open the windows.
I guess I have broken BOLUS…. and am experiencing the old pH syndrome LOL…
Yeah, but I just recalibrated my KH director because it was no longer in line or near the Salifert results.
One thing I noticed is the KH director reading is pretty much the highest when the Bolus rise tops out the PH for the day and then plateaus. Which one would expect since it uses a PH probe to do the measurement.

I do a Salifert reading at the same time in the evening every other day, and it pretty much stays at +/- 0.2 KH.
If the reading is going outside of that, I just add or reduce the dose by 2% the next day.

Somehow, the whole Bolus thing is in line with the "doing less is more" mindset, which after years in this hobby I learned the hard way is very true when it comes to a Saltwater Tank. ( other than maintenance and water changes which lead to great success when done diligently ).

Maybe tomorrow I will do a Salifert reading 30 minutes after the Bolus dose.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Maybe tomorrow I will do a Salifert reading 30 minutes after the Bolus dose.

You will certainly detect all of the alk dosed in a significant rise from what it was before dosing, then a steady fall off until the next dose.
 

reefluvrr

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Bolus dosing of sodium carbonate (the normal B-ionic) is expected to have a considerable instantaneous pH boost. If you add 1.4 dKH worth of the alk, the boost is around 0.35 pH units. More if you start at lower pH and less at higher starting pH. It also depends on alk so it will be about what I stated at 7 dKH and much less starting at 11 dKH.
Thank you Randy for explaining this. Can you help explain to me why it is so for what I am seeing in my tank. My dkh is stable at 9.5. Because of the of the higher alkalinity as you described, the pH is not going up as high as it use to.
 

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Along this line, setting aside all the wrong chemistry of FM and considering the application of a bolus of alkalinity before turning the lights off works, would it be more effective to dose alkalinity using sodium hydroxide or at least as part of the bolus?
 

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Along this line, setting aside all the wrong chemistry of FM and considering the application of a bolus of alkalinity before turning the lights off works, would it be more effective to dose alkalinity using sodium hydroxide or at least as part of the bolus?
In my opinion, dosing sodium hydroxide in one shot (like BOLUS) might lead to high pH and I suspect substantial precipitation (tank might be all white for a bit).

Also sodium hydroxide does need to be handled with care and if spilled it can dissolve flesh. Since I have kids and cats at home I prefer to stay away from substances like this. They managed to spill my bicarbonate /carb mixture on few occasions so it is of question of when they spill it not if they spill it. But that is just my opinion.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Thank you Randy for explaining this. Can you help explain to me why it is so for what I am seeing in my tank. My dkh is stable at 9.5. Because of the of the higher alkalinity as you described, the pH is not going up as high as it use to.

I’m sorry, what am I explaining?

The instant pH spike on dosing is from using carbonate that sucks up H+ and raises pH. The continues rise over several hours is from photosynthesis consuming CO2, plus possibly an effect from higher total alk shifting the pH to higher values at a given CO2 level.

I don’t see a graph of alk over 24 h to comment on.
 

reefluvrr

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I’m sorry, what am I explaining?

The instant pH spike on dosing is from using carbonate that sucks up H+ and raises pH. The continues rise over several hours is from photosynthesis consuming CO2, plus possibly an effect from higher total alk shifting the pH to higher values at a given CO2 level.

I don’t see a graph of alk over 24 h to comment on.
I thought maybe if a tank had higher dkh say 11dkh vs 7 dkh, when you add the same bolus of carbonate say 30ml, you would see higher pH rise in the 7 dkh tank vs the 11 dkh tank. If that is the case, how come?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I thought maybe if a tank had higher dkh say 11dkh vs 7 dkh, when you add the same bolus of carbonate say 30ml, you would see higher pH rise in the 7 dkh tank vs the 11 dkh tank. If that is the case, how come?

Oh, that is because the water is buffered more against pH changes at higher ph.

I discuss ph buffering here:

 

Mo.

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The question I guess would be - what happens to the pH when the light goes on - but nothing is dosed. I'm not saying there is no need to dose, just that it doesn't seem like it's the product thats doing anything magical, but rather the light. If you dosed the alk at 10PM, what would the difference be
What happens is you don’t get this bit….

IMG_5387.jpeg
 
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