Bolus dosing

BeanAnimal

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We have added a covalently bonded triatomic inorganic molecule with a bond angle of 104.5 degrees. This strong polar bond prevents the molecule from breaking down easily and facilitates bonds to other hydrogen molecules, allowing it to act as a universal solvent.....

Maybe I should apply for a position on the marketing team?
 

Hans-Werner

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Since we are on the subject of peptide and I know exactly zero about them.
Maybe let's approach it from the practical side: I want to buy "peptides", where do I go?

For example hydrolyzed gelatin or other hydrolyzed proteins besides free amino acids contain peptides. So you go into a shop with dietary supplements or a shop for bodybuilding or sports.

If I put peptides into water or an aqueous solution that is not sterile I expect the same happens as if I put meat, milk or plant based protein into water or an aqueous solution: bacteria will start to grow and it will get quite smelly from ammonia and hydrogen sulfide that is released by the bacteria.

This may not happen to all kinds of peptides but to most or nearly all. I think an explanation is needed why a specific peptide is not degraded by proteolytic bacteria.
 

GARRIGA

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Could this turn into another Vibrant :thinking-face:
 

Pod_01

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Thanks,
Maybe let's approach it from the practical side: I want to buy "peptides", where do I go?

For example hydrolyzed gelatin or other hydrolyzed proteins besides free amino acids contain peptides. So you go into a shop with dietary supplements or a shop for bodybuilding or sports.

If I put peptides into water or an aqueous solution that is not sterile I expect the same happens as if I put meat, milk or plant based protein into water or an aqueous solution: bacteria will start to grow and it will get quite smelly from ammonia and hydrogen sulfide that is released by the bacteria.

This may not happen to all kinds of peptides but to most or nearly all. I think an explanation is needed why a specific peptide is not degraded by proteolytic bacteria.
Thank you, so now I know “collagen” is one example of peptide. What one learns on reefing forum.
Now if they use “collagen” that could explain the extra glow corals may get ….


Could this turn into another Vibrant :thinking-face:
Hope not, at least I hope there is no hidden detrimental ingredient.

But we may never know what is in FM KH mix, I just re-read the online description:

IMG_2486.jpeg


pH buffer in Alk??? That is like you get a steering wheel when you buy a car…

But from description they do imply there is other stuff in there stabilizers, minerals etc…
 

GARRIGA

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Thanks,

Thank you, so now I know “collagen” is one example of peptide. What one learns on reefing forum.
Now if they use “collagen” that could explain the extra glow corals may get ….



Hope not, at least I hope there is no hidden detrimental ingredient.

But we may never know what is in FM KH mix, I just re-read the online description:

IMG_2486.jpeg


pH buffer in Alk??? That is like you get a steering wheel when you buy a car…

But from description they do imply there is other stuff in there stabilizers, minerals etc…
Technically nothing detrimental in Vibrant had they been honest about their ingredients and just told us it was Algae Fix at a premium price therefore administered as such. Based off what I've read and I believe they had to disclose the use of pesticides but don't recall since they never commented and that seems to be the end of that although still still quotes by those not informed using it since it's still being retailed.
 

elysics

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Technically nothing detrimental in Vibrant had they been honest about their ingredients and just told us it was Algae Fix at a premium price therefore administered as such. Based off what I've read and I believe they had to disclose the use of pesticides but don't recall since they never commented and that seems to be the end of that although still still quotes by those not informed using it since it's still being retailed.
Wouldn't call algaefix not detrimental. There is a difference between using something after looking at the potential side effects and doing it anyway, and using something because you are told it's safe and that there are no side effects.
 

GARRIGA

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Wouldn't call algaefix not detrimental. There is a difference between using something after looking at the potential side effects and doing it anyway, and using something because you are told it's safe and that there are no side effects.
Depends on application. Copper can be detrimental or life saving. That's my point with Algae Fix. Knowing it's a pesticide means someone wouldn't purposely dose a reef tank but likely FOWLER.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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As an fyi, many anionic peptides are likely to reduce the precipitation of calcium carbonate. I used an anionic polymer, sodium polyacrylate, to greatly reduce precipitation in seawater when adding more and more B-ionic.
 

Hans-Werner

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Thank you, so now I know “collagen” is one example of peptide.
Not exactly. Collagen is a protein, collagen hydrolyzate contains peptides, just as other protein hydrolyzates. If you cut proteins you will get peptides and usually free amino acids. Peptides are for example fragments of proteins, occuring during protein digestion.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Not exactly. Collagen is a protein, collagen hydrolyzate contains peptides, just as other protein hydrolyzates. If you cut proteins you will get peptides and usually free amino acids. Peptides are for example fragments of proteins, occuring during protein digestion.

As an example, there’s a product I saw yesterday at a grocery store here in the US that was literally labeled collagen peptides. Such products are often made from waste animal products by acud or heat treatments to break the collagen into smaller pieces (peptides).
 

Hans-Werner

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As an fyi, many anionic peptides are likely to reduce the precipitation of calcium carbonate.
Thank you for this information. Since I am always application oriented, do you know where I can buy anionic peptides and which costs I can expect? :)
 

Pod_01

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Not exactly. Collagen is a protein, collagen hydrolyzate contains peptides, just as other protein hydrolyzates.
I have to be honest, I used the internet to look up some uses of peptides and read through this article:


In the article they mentioned “collagen” and the use/ benefits:

1720096069293.jpeg

No idea if the content is correct.

The problem, the more I read on peptides the less I understand why FM added them to the KH mix and why the reef tank benefits from them!!!
Maybe a case of “little knowledge is a dangerous thing”…
 

Koty

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Gelatin is hydrolyzed collagen rich in "simple" amino acids. I wonder (if) and how the modified Pro (Hydroxyproline) may affect alkalinity




1720083525337.png
 

Superlightman

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In a german forum somebody made a test with the KH Mix.

Translated:

"I bought the product yesterday and did a test today. I added 10g to 100ml of water (corresponds to 100g to 1 liter of water or 500g to 5 liters), followed the instructions, added the 10g to 70ml of osmosis water and then topped up to 100ml. Everything was weighed out beforehand with a calibrated scale.

The mixture was in the magnetic stirrer for a few hours. It also took a while for all the powder to dissolve completely. I used 0.5 ml of this mixture (with a 1 ml syringe) and tested it with one liter of seawater.

According to the manufacturer, 10ml KH solution increases the KH value by 0.5 per 100 liters (corresponds to 0.1ml solution per 1 liter of water). 0.5ml KH Mix solution should increase the KH by 2.5.


1 liter of seawater before adding:

pH 8.37

KH Salifert 7.7

KH Hanna Checker 7.8


After addition and forced mixing with magnetic stirrer (10 minutes)

pH 8.43

KH Salifert 9.6

KH Hanna Checker 9.7


KH difference: 1.9.

TARGET 2.50 to ACTUAL 1.90 is 24% less.

As a reminder: with pure bicarbonate you would get 3200KH/l, so the pH should not rise and the KH increase would also be less.

In the reef2reef forum someone mentioned the "old" Balling recipe of 81g bicarbonate and 19g carbonate, which corresponds to approx. 3700KH/L. That would be 26% less compared to the stated 5000KH per liter.

81g bicarbonate / 19g carbonate is 26% less and my test showed 24% less."

If this is correct, the KH mix simply consists of bicarbonates and carbonates. I have no idea to what extent any peptides are included and what their specific purpose is.
My guess is marketing, because both bicarbonates and carbonates are very cheap and it's not rocket science to make the mixture yourself.
it probably is ,but Claude claimed it is only Hydrogénocarbonate,even if the description of the product say differently...
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Gelatin is hydrolyzed collagen rich in "simple" amino acids. I wonder (if) and how the modified Pro (Hydroxyproline) may affect alkalinity




1720083525337.png

only aspartic acid and glutamic acid will boost alk if it is in a pH neutral solution.
 

Jari81

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In a german forum somebody made a test with the KH Mix.

Translated:

"I bought the product yesterday and did a test today. I added 10g to 100ml of water (corresponds to 100g to 1 liter of water or 500g to 5 liters), followed the instructions, added the 10g to 70ml of osmosis water and then topped up to 100ml. Everything was weighed out beforehand with a calibrated scale.

The mixture was in the magnetic stirrer for a few hours. It also took a while for all the powder to dissolve completely. I used 0.5 ml of this mixture (with a 1 ml syringe) and tested it with one liter of seawater.

According to the manufacturer, 10ml KH solution increases the KH value by 0.5 per 100 liters (corresponds to 0.1ml solution per 1 liter of water). 0.5ml KH Mix solution should increase the KH by 2.5.


1 liter of seawater before adding:

pH 8.37

KH Salifert 7.7

KH Hanna Checker 7.8


After addition and forced mixing with magnetic stirrer (10 minutes)

pH 8.43

KH Salifert 9.6

KH Hanna Checker 9.7


KH difference: 1.9.

TARGET 2.50 to ACTUAL 1.90 is 24% less.

As a reminder: with pure bicarbonate you would get 3200KH/l, so the pH should not rise and the KH increase would also be less.

In the reef2reef forum someone mentioned the "old" Balling recipe of 81g bicarbonate and 19g carbonate, which corresponds to approx. 3700KH/L. That would be 26% less compared to the stated 5000KH per liter.

81g bicarbonate / 19g carbonate is 26% less and my test showed 24% less."

If this is correct, the KH mix simply consists of bicarbonates and carbonates. I have no idea to what extent any peptides are included and what their specific purpose is.
My guess is marketing, because both bicarbonates and carbonates are very cheap and it's not rocket science to make the mixture yourself.

After running Bolus with the FM product for 5 weeks, I switched to a bicarb:carb mixture of 4:1. And still I am getting the same results as before, even the dosed lump amount did practically stay the same.
 

Pod_01

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After running Bolus with the FM product for 5 weeks, I switched to a bicarb:carb mixture of 4:1. And still I am getting the same results as before, even the dosed lump amount did practically stay the same.
Just so I understand, you went from FM KH mix to your own bicarbonate:carb mix and your dose amount did not change?

If that is the case how much of bicarbonate/carb did you mix per 5L?
FM KH is 500g per 5L and I believe this gives 5000 dkh /l (I may be wrong).

I am not sure how much of 4:1 bicarbonate/carb is required to get the same potency or if it is even possible to mix…
 

LimestoneCowboy

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After running Bolus with the FM product for 5 weeks, I switched to a bicarb:carb mixture of 4:1. And still I am getting the same results as before, even the dosed lump amount did practically stay the same.
I have been doing for 31 and just made the same change. Will wait for more science related evidence if there is some benefit I’m missing on Bolus.
 

Yazannreef

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I been doing the bolus method for few weeks now. I don't really see any pH benefits at all. My lows at night is 7.7ph and my highs are 8.1 and that's because of light and photosynthesis.

Is there any problems if I revert back to kalkwasser at night and keep bolus dose for the morning? Obviously I will back out of the bolus dose by half and then see where my dkh lands.

Any feedback will be appreciated.
 

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