Bryopsis Cure: My Battle With Bryopsis Using Fluconazole

[Jose Mayo]

Only problem I would have is that the bottle only comes with 10 pills. Leaving me with 3 1/2 pills if I had to do the early water change.

With 3.5 tablets of 200mg, you can treat up to 35g of exchange water.

Best regards

 

[ReefingwithO]

Some experiments with tablets had good results, others not so much. There may be differences in the composition of the tablets in relation to the excipients, depending on which laboratory they manufacture them, so it would be ideal to define a brand of use for more reproducible results.

Best regards

The Brand is Citron

 

[Jose Mayo]

Want to get some opinions. Saturday will be day 14 of my treatment, which has gone very well. I have a little bit of gha left here and there but it looks very unhealthy so I'm sure its on its way out. I really planned on Saturday being my water change day. Should I be ok even though there is some gha left? Since it looks half dead already is it safe to say the medicine is in it enough to keep killing it off even if I do my 30% WC? Saturday will just be a really convenient day for me do get stuff done.

There is no study on the residual effect of Fluconazole on algae after treatment. It would be matter to note.

Best regards

 

[Jose Mayo]

The Brand is Citron

The Fluconazole tablets of Citron lab contain as inactive ingredients: microcrystalline cellulose, dibasic calcium phosphate anhydrous, povidone, croscarmellose sodium, FD & C Red No. 40 aluminum lake dye, and magnesium stearate.

These are the same inactive ingredients of Diflucan, Pfizer lab.

Experiments with Diflucan were effective.

Best regards

 

[saltwater newby]

1- For a 65g tank you should need 1,300mg of Fluconazole, equivalent to 6.5 tablets of 200mg / tablet.
2- Remove Purigen. Phosguard can continue to run
3- Yes
4- Yes
5- You should check the parameters (nitrate and phosphate) every 3 days and, if it is OK, do the partial water exchange at the end of the treatment. If there is a substantial change in the parameters at any time, partial replacement of water can be done by replacing Fluconazole in the exchange water in the same proportion as the initial dose.
6- I have not tried this brand of medication but from other experiences reported it seems to be effective.

Best regards

1- For a 65g tank you should need 1,300mg of Fluconazole, equivalent to 6.5 tablets of 200mg / tablet.
2- Remove Purigen. Phosguard can continue to run
3- Yes
4- Yes
5- You should check the parameters (nitrate and phosphate) every 3 days and, if it is OK, do the partial water exchange at the end of the treatment. If there is a substantial change in the parameters at any time, partial replacement of water can be done by replacing Fluconazole in the exchange water in the same proportion as the initial dose.
6- I have not tried this brand of medication but from other experiences reported it seems to be effective.

Best regards

Which brand did you try??

 

[coralcruze]

No study, as far as I know, reveals symbiotic interactions between fungi and animals, not even studies on corals; the presence of bacteria, algae, protozoa and fungi on the surface of the coral, and that these microorganisms compose what is conventionally called "holobiont", does not mean at all that all interactions, seen organism to organism, are positive. More often than not, what is seen, in relation to fungi on corals, is that these are saprophytes commensal until the moment in which an imbalance occurs, becoming part of the pathogenic complex. No similarity, therefore, in the contribution of these fungi to the holobiont, in relation to the zooxanthelas, which inhabit the interior of the coral body and with it establish a truly symbiotic relationship, to the point that there is a real need for the presence of one for the health of the other.

And ... yes, Fluconazole most likely can affect any fungi, either on the coral or inside the aquarium and perhaps because of this, soft corals, which often feed by diffusion (as the zoanthus, for example), seem to present improvement in appearance and growth when under the effect of Fluconazole; perhaps (I merely suppose), under conditions of eutrophication and low circulation, the multiplication of microorganisms (including fungi) on the surface of the corals may be increased, as well as the thickness of the mucus, reducing the diffusion of the nutrients in this type of soft coral, hampering its development . In these circumstances, the fact that Fluconazole "alleviates" the burden of fungi on the coral may be positive (to be confirmed).

Best regards

@Jose Mayo
I noticed no such improvement or degradation of any of my zoanthids or palythoa colonies with floucon application. However, i did in fact notice bleaching which seemed to have been caused by flouconozole.

are you suggesting there is absolutely no fungi microorganism inside the coral animal? the article seems to suggest the opposite. and also if Fungi exists only on the outside could there be a direct benefit of fungi to the coral? Perhaps not in symbiosis (as you suggest more on that below) but more as an "external" benefit.

I guess the more basic question we have to ask whats the purpose of fungi in ecosystem and we know that it performs the process of decomposition.

This article seems to suggest differently than your hypothesis in that symbiosis can be found in ecosystems between plants and fungai. isn't it possible that even if they live outside the coral structure that a symbiosis of fungai still exists and not only this but its crucial to the coral animals health since the coral animal relies on close symbiosis to algae inside it?

THIS MOST SIGNIFICANT PDF/article that suggests AND illistrates that there is in fact BOTH exterior and interior interactions between corals and fungi and that fungi exists inside the coral structure.

www.int-res.com/articles/meps/117/m117p137.pdf

"Less attention is paid to other co-existing organisms, such
as phototrophic endolithic algae and heterotrophic
fungi that may interact with corals in interrelationships
other than symbiosis. Endolithic algae and fungi that
penetrate coral skeleton are of particular interest."

below is an image from the same article credited above for purpose of illustration


Wouldn't you agree that fungi plays such an important role in coral interaction? and.. If floucon is so efficient at killing fungi that can disrupt symbiosis between the corals and algae inside of its structure, Is it prudent to ignore this fact?

Obviously, not all corals are being affected the same way by floucon but certainly some more sensitive SPS colonies were in my tank. Is it prudent to ignore this fact?

 

[Jose Mayo]

If this article is correct... Wouldn't you agree that if fungi plays such an important role and floucon is so efficient at killing fungi that can disrupt symbiosis between the corals and algae inside of its structure?

Obviously, not all corals are being affected the same way by floucon but certainly some more sensitive SPS colonies are. Is it prudent to be ignoring this fact?

The article is correct. What I think is not correct is the interpretation you make of it. If you go back and read it calmly, you will find that I did not say that fungi do not make symbiosis with plants, algae and bacteria; They do. What I said is that they do not make symbiosis, that I know, with animals. Corals are animals, as you know, and I know of no fungus that makes symbiosis with them, but ... who knows, if you keep looking, you can not find one?

You continue to claim, apart from all other experiments, that you are sure that it was the fluconazole that produced bleaching in some of your corals, as well as killing a colony. Well, idiosyncracies do happen, and yes, perhaps in very particular cases fluconazole may be the reason (allergy?) Or the coadjuvant factor that triggers negative effects in some colony of corals.

With only four years of use of fluconazole in the world (and only two in the United States), for the purpose of treating problems with difficult algae, it is obvious that we do not know all its effects, so any contribution in this sense is important and it is important that everyone who wants to use it know that any experiment carries risks and anyone who is willing to do so must take those risks.

Best regards

 

[Jose Mayo]

Which brand did you try??

Zoltec capsules, Pfizer lab.

Best regards

 

[Jose Mayo]

THIS MOST SIGNIFICANT PDF/article that suggests AND illistrates that there is in fact BOTH exterior and interior interactions between corals and fungi and that fungi exists inside the coral structure.

www.int-res.com/articles/meps/117/m117p137.pdf

Read this, please:

Abstract
The skeleton of live coral Porites lobata is regularly bored by euendolrthic algae (mostly Ostreobium quekettu) and fungi, both commonly extending up to the very tips of newly produced skeletal spines. The live polyp tissue of P lob& occupies a 4 to 5 mm thick surface layer of the coral- lum, within which new skeletal material is deposited. Thus, the endoliths do not constitute a separate zone beneath the live polyps; rather, the polyp tissue and populations of endolithic algae and fungi of significant densities co-exist and interact within the same layer. Aragonitic, hemispherical to conical outgrowths protruding from the walls of structural pores were observed in skeletons of P lobata from the barrier reef of Moorea Island, near Tahiti, French Polynesia. These protrusions were always associ- ated with endolithic fungal hyphae attempting to exit from the skeleton into the space occupied by polyps The polyps responded to such intrusions in a manner similar to the response of mollusks to foreign bodies: by local deposition of dense skeletal material. As the fungus continued to penetrate through this repair deposit, new layers of aragonite were added by the polyp, contributing to the growth of the protrusions. Fungal hyphae rarely entered the pore spaces while these were still occu- pied by coral polyps. More often, the polyps escaped the fungus by moving upward, as a part of their normal growth rhythm, evacuating the previously occupied skeletal pores Deprived of resistance, fun- gal hyphae penetrated through the cones and exited into emptied pore spaces. The conical structures were affected by diagenesis differently than the intact skeletal carbonate. Both skeletal carbonate and repair carbonate were subject to syntaxial diagenetic crystal growth, but they resulted in cements with disparate crystal sizes. Septate fungal hyphae are common in coral skeletons as euendoliths, as crypto- endoliths in structural voids, and as endophytes inside filaments of endolithic algae. They were also found inside soft coral tissue. Fungi may be opportunistic pathogens in corals under environmental stress. Their activity, recorded and preserved in the coral skeleton, provides information on changes m past conditions of coral growth.

Do you want to read the rest of this article?

Fungi in corals: Symbiosis or disease? Interaction between polyps and fungi... | Request PDF. Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/public..._causes_pearl-like_skeleton_biomineralization [accessed Jan 28 2018].

Best regards

 

[saltwater newby]

Zoltec capsules, Pfizer lab.

Best regards

Thank you!! Needed a prescription for it??

 

[Jose Mayo]

Thank you!! Needed a prescription for it??

In Brazil, antifungal medicines do not necessarily require a medical prescription for the purchase, but in the United States it seems to be mandatory.

Best regards

 

[saltwater newby]

In Brazil, antifungal medicines do not necessarily require a medical prescription for the purchase, but in the United States it seems to be mandatory.

Best regards

Brazil huh? Gotcha.... thank you!

 

[coralcruze]

@josemayo. Firtly, i am unsure why you think i am not calm? Perhaps it is because you are not but i am perfectly calm observing this thread...But you did say...

No study, as far as I know, reveals symbiotic interactions between fungi and animals, not even studies on corals; the presence of bacteria, algae, protozoa and fungi on the surface of the coral, and that these microorganisms compose what is conventionally called "holobiont", does not mean at all that all interactions, seen organism to organism, are positive. More often than not, what is seen, in relation to fungi on corals, is that these are saprophytes commensal until the moment in which an imbalance occurs, becoming part of the pathogenic complex. No similarity, therefore, in the contribution of these fungi to the holobiont, in relation to the zooxanthelas, which inhabit the interior of the coral body and with it establish a truly symbiotic relationship, to the point that there is a real need for the presence of one for the health of the other.

And ... yes, Fluconazole most likely can affect any fungi, either on the coral or inside the aquarium.......

I Showed you an article which clearly illustrates fungi INSIDE the coral interacting with the corals ALGAE. You state that fungi is in the aquarim of on the OUTSIDE of the coral. you also know that its is widely understood that algae and fungi symbiosis exists in plants. we both know that zoaxinthelli live in symbiosis in the coral. so please tell me why symbiosis between algae and fungi in a coral is so far fetched for you? even though its clearly illustrated...i would really like to know your reasoning that fungi althoigh existant in fact inside may not have a positive and needed interaction with the corals algae also living inside of its tissue... since you belive fungai is only interacting from the outside or in the aquarium... did you study the diagram?

 

[coralcruze]

@josemayo. I like my corals with thier fugai inside thier tissue because the corals looked healthy befor I went and killed the fungi in the coral and out with floucon. now i should be finding a way to dose/add fungi back into the syatem in thw hopes tha the corals recover. if the interaction between fungi and coral is negative one than i would still like that back because at least there the coral looked healthy. Lol

 

[Jose Mayo]

@josemayo. Firtly, i am unsure why you think i am not calm? Perhaps it is because you are not but i am perfectly calm observing this thread...But you did say...

I Showed you an article which clearly illustrates fungi INSIDE the coral interacting with the corals ALGAE. You state that fungi is in the aquarim of on the OUTSIDE of the coral. you also know that its is widely understood that algae and fungi symbiosis exists in plants. we both know that zoaxinthelli live in symbiosis in the coral. so please tell me why symbiosis between algae and fungi in a coral is so far fetched for you? even though its clearly illustrated...i would really like to know your reasoning that fungi althoigh existant in fact inside may not have a positive and needed interaction with the corals algae also living inside of its tissue... since you belive fungai is only interacting from the outside or in the aquarium... did you study the diagram?

So, @coralcruze , I regretfully have to repeat to you that you READ, please, the article you yourself submitted as proof of your views, but did not understand.

The article says that the fungus in question, in the coral in question, is not a symbiont, but a DISEASE.

Read again, take it easy, and maybe you'll understand.

Be fine

 

[coralcruze]

So, @coralcruze , I regretfully have to repeat to you that you READ, please, the article you yourself submitted as proof of your views, but did not understand.

The article says that the fungus in question, in the coral in question, is not a symbiont, but a DISEASE.

Read again, take it easy, and maybe you'll understand.

Be fine

@ jose mayo lol, you seem to be pushing Flouconozole...

You said that fungi is only on outside of coral. the illustration presented to you clearly shows otherwise... symbiotic directly or indirectly to the coral or not its there on the INSIDE to serve a purpose that you admited you don't understand if its a disease or not. Can you show proof that fungi is NOT Symbiotic to the coral? Can you show proof that fungi is a disease to the coral? Not enough to just say "most often fungi is a disease".

In my observation, when fungi was killed on the INSIDE of some corals there became an imbalance and the coral bleached or for others RTN'ed.

I like my corals with the fungi than with floucon killing it. I personally will not use flouconozole again.

to this end I have nothing further... as you were!

before floucon


after floucon

 

[Jose Mayo]

@ jose mayo lol, you seem to be pushing Flouconozole...

So, @coralcruze, with arguments like this, you win and I'm out of the game.

I will not answer any more.

Be fine

 

[Abhishek]

@Jose Mayo - I know I have clumps of byropsis and GHA and planning to dose fluco .
But what's these black stubborn algae that I have growing all over my rocks ?
Do you think fluco will work for these too ?

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[Jose Mayo]

But what's these black stubborn algae that I have growing all over my rocks ?
Do you think fluco will work for these too ?

Try to take a photo only with white lights, it is better for identification.

Best regards

 

[Abhishek]

Try to take a photo only with white lights, it is better for identification.

Best regards

Best I could get with an iPhone

Regards,
Abhishek