Bryopsis Cure: My Battle With Bryopsis Using Fluconazole

Discussion in 'Algae (including nuisance algae and bacteria)' started by NCreefguy, Jan 19, 2017.

?
  1. Yes

    46.3%
  2. No

    5.9%
  3. I'm treating my tank with it now.

    33.0%
  4. I love Bryopsis and I'm mad that everyone is killing it.

    14.8%
  1. NCreefguy

    NCreefguy Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    *******Important*******
    If someone from this forum sends you a PM and trys to persuade you to not use this med,you should PM a mod(or pm me and I'll forward it to a mod) and let them know that you are being harassed. Many of the biggest names in the saltwater industry are now using this treament or have used it and you don't deserve to be harassed just becaused someone doesn't agree with it.

    Please read the Frequently Asked Questions(FAQs) located right after the pictures before you treat your tank.It should answer most of your questions and help you avoid some mistakes.

    Fluconazole can be used as an anti-bacterial med for fish diseases and I haven't seen any adverse reactions from using it, but I just don't want anyone to come back and say that they killed their fish/corals or inverts and blame me. This was not my discovery as I am just following what some others have already done. If you try this it is at your own risk and don't shoot the messenger. :)


    Okay so like I have said in another Fluconazole thread,I always inspect and QT everything before it goes into my tank. I had several frags in qt for a few weeks and all seamed fine. Before transferring them to my DT I brushed off what looked like regular green surface algae and thought nothing of it.Well after about a month all three frags had a healthy helping of Bryopsis growing on them.
    I've had to deal with this years ago so I know what kind of a struggle it can be. I did not want to just sit around and hope this cleared itself up because I knew this could get really bad.I had a tank full of Bryopsis years ago and tried everything I could to get rid of it and it just kept spreading everywhere.
    Finally after gallons and gallons (system was almost 400gls)of Kent Tech M I was able to melt the Bryopsis away but it was no picnic.

    Now, after learning that Kent Tech M has changed and doesn't work anymore or is hit or miss now,I read about some people having success against Bryopsis using Vibrant.I tried Vibrant for a couple of months and it did damage the Bryopsis fern/fan leaves but it wouldn't kill it off completely. I know people say to just give it more time but let me show you what can happen when you give Bryopsis time in your tank.(BTW I'm not knocking Vibrant or @UWC I think he has been a stand up guy on this forum and some people have had great success using their products)

    They did not call me the Bryopsis King for no reason........

    [​IMG]

    It was like this across the entire tank. Notice for you tang lovers out there that mine had no interest what so ever in eating any of the Bryopsis.If they would have kept the rocks picked clean this would not have reached being the forest that you see.I have more pics but it's ugly and I think you get the picture.As you can see,this would be my reason for NOT wanting to wait too long on this.

    Anyway this brings me up to using Fluconazole. After searching the good ole web I found that some people(some over seas) were using Fluconazole in a one time dose to kill off Byropsis. At first I thought that this was too good to be true.I mean most people were saying that their tanks were Bryopsis free in about 10-15 days give or take a few days. Then they started posting before and after pics and also saying that they had not lost any fish or corals!! OMG sign me up! I thought. Well after doing a little more research I found out that Fluconazole can be used to treat infections/diseases in fish and that the dosage I would need to use was considered somewhat "safe" for the fish so I placed an order..

    [​IMG]

    There were two different dosages that were being used. One was 9mg/L and the other was 150mg/30L which is 5mg/L. I have 200 gallons of total water volume in this system which is 757L. So 757L x 9mg/L would be a dose of 6813mg. 757L x 5mg/L would be a dose of 3785mg.
    I went with 4000mg so it was 20mg per gallon.
    Everyone was seeing their results when using the lower dose so I went with the lower dose.

    *Also note that if I were using Fluconazole to treat my fish for infections I would need to dose this same amount every 24hrs for no less than 5 days but not more than 10 days.

    This made me feel somewhat better about using it because this would be a one time dose and not building up 5-10 times as much in my aquarium over the course of 5-10 days.

    So let the battle begin!!

    Before I dosed the tank I turned off my actinic lighting,changed my filter socks from 200 micron to mesh filter socks,turned off the UV channels on my Radions,removed my GFO/GAC filters and removed my skimmer cup.

    I emptied 20 of the 200mg capsule in a cup of tank water and stirred for a minute or two.(throw away the empty capsules) Not all of the medication dissolved but that's okay. I then poured the entire cup in my DT in front of a powerhead.
    Cloudiness went away after about an hour. Fish,corals and inverts didn't seem to notice any change at all.

    I apologize in advance for my blurry pics as photography is not my strong suit.

    Edit: I know some people don't like reading through entire threads and just want to see the results so I'll keep this first post updated with all the pics.

    Before the treatment started...
    [​IMG]

    Day 1
    [​IMG]

    Day 2
    [​IMG]

    Day 3
    [​IMG]

    Day 4
    [​IMG]

    Day 5
    [​IMG]

    Day 6
    [​IMG]

    Day 7
    [​IMG]

    Day 8
    [​IMG]

    Day 9
    [​IMG]

    Day 10
    [​IMG]

    8 Months later and still no Bryopsis....
    [​IMG]

    A big thank you to @stevo01 for his help on the FAQ for this thread.

    Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)

    ****This treatment seems to work best in well lit areas of the tank. Some people are noticing quicker results by adding light to the shaded areas of their tank.*****

    Q: Will Fluconazole kill Bryopsis?
    A: YES. Fluconazole will kill Bryopsis. There have been a couple of strains that seems to take longer to kill but if you have Bryopsis,it will kill it.It has also killed most forms of GHA although GHA takes longer to kill. Some tanks have needed another treatment to kill all of the GHA.Keep in mind that GHA can/will return in your system over time as you perform water changes and remove the Fluconazole. GHA shows up any time the conditions are right for its growth.This does not mean the treatment didn't work,only that the conditions were right for its return. Bryopsis however won't return in your system unless you didn't kill all of the Bryopsis cells during treatment or you reintroduce it into your tank through frags etc.

    Q: How does Fluconazole work?
    A: Fluconazole blocks the enzymatic pathway for the production of ergosterol. Ergosterol is essential for maintaining the cell wall integrity of plants. Ergosterol (ergosta-5,7,22-trien-3β-ol) is a sterol found in cell membranes of fungi and protozoa, serving many of the same functions that cholesterol serves in animal cells.


    Q: Will Fluconazole kill anything else in my system?
    A: So far Fluconazole has not killed anything other than bryopsis and GHA. Everything and I mean EVERYTHING else is unaffected.

    Q: Where do I get Fluconazole?
    A: There are many sources online.You can search for Fish Fluconazole and find it.

    Q: How much Fluconazole do I use?
    A: The suggested dose is one SINGLE dose in the amount of 20mg per gallon of water. There are reefers who are experimenting with using 10mg per gallon right now, but none with completing the 1st "round".

    Q: Do I do a WC before treatment?
    A: Yes. It would be a good idea as the treatment is for 14 days and expect an increase in NO3.

    Q: How do I prepare the the medication?
    A: I have noticed with the capsules it is very tough opening them without crushing the capsule. This is what I did. Use a razor blade and cut off the rounded end of the large outer half of the capsule. Then you can very easily pour the contents out into a glass of RODI water or tank water. The amount of water doesnt matter, but make it enough to be able to mix the med up. The med isnt very soluble, but mix it up best you can. Preferably dose at night when fish are asleep. Then pour the entire dose into the DT, or sump. Some have put it into their sump socks. I dosed directly into the DT.

    Q: How long is the treatment?
    A: 14 days.Maybe up to 21 days if you still have GHA present in the tank.Longer treatments have been run without any problems so if you want to continue your treatment past the 3 weeks it will be fine.

    Q: Do I remove my carbon?
    A: Yes.

    Q: Do I remove my skimmer cup?
    A: Its suggested for at least the first few days if not the entire treatment remove your cup. If you pull your cup you may continue to run the skimmer, or turn the skimmer down as to not allow the skim to enter the cup. You do not want to remove the med.

    Q: Do I take my ATS offline?
    A: Yes. Completely sanitize it, and reintroduce it after all the bryopsis is 100% gone.

    Q: Do I take my bio reactor offline?
    A: No.

    Q: Do I take my GFO offline?
    A: No GFO will not remove the meds.It will also help to remove the po4 from dying algae.

    Q: Do I continue to dose H2O2?
    A: Yes. It will not interact with this med.

    Q: Do I continue to dose Vibrant?
    A: Yes. This SHOULD not interact this med. It may help to dose Vibrant as it will assist in NO3 export.

    Q: Do I continue to dose colors, alk, calcium, and magnesium?
    A: Yes.

    Q: Should I change my lighting?
    A: No.

    Q: If I take my carbon reactor, or any other equipment off line/out of the tank, do I just put them back into the system after treatment?
    A: No. Do not reintroduce the algae. It would be best to sterilize any equipment and throw away old media for reactors.

    Q: Is it ok to take out my chaeto, or other algae's then put back after treatment?
    A: No. this may reintroduce the algae. Leave the macros in the tank.

    Q: Do I take my carbon reactor offline?
    A: Yes.

    Q:Should I stop using Purigen during treatment?
    A:Yes.

    Q: Do I take my UV Sterilizer offline?
    A: No. At first it was thought that the UV would break down the meds but further testing has shown that it doesn't seem to effect the treatment enough to remove it.

    Q: Do I do a WC during treatment?
    A: No. Unless it cannot be avoided and a WC needs to be done to save life.

    Q: Will Fluconazole kill my chaetomorpha or other beneficial maco's?
    A: Some users have reported some macro algae loss during the treatment but most have not.We are not seeing any wide spread death in macros so it's more of a judgement call on your part.

    Q: Will Fluconazole kill the parasitic algae known to burrow through LPS corals?
    A: This is currently being researched.

    Q: What other nuisance algae's will be killed by Fluconazole?
    A: Fluconazole kills the green algae Derbesia also known as GHA. It seems that GHA takes longer to kill than the bryopsis but it still dies. It does not kill Bubble algae.

    Q: When do I do a WC?
    A: At the end of the full 14 day treatment. After treatment has completed you will go back to your normal running system. Do a WC as your NO3/PO4 levels may be high from a lot of dead algae.

    -Stevo





    This treatment has been a huge success.For so many years we have had to deal with this terrible algae. Well now we can finally say that beating Bryopsis is a reality. No more tearing down your tanks. No more endless hours of pulling and picking at this mess. Fluconazole has made the eradication of Bryopsis from our tanks quick,easy and painless.Please let everyone you know in the reefing community about this treatment. The more people who know,the better.

    Testing by @twilliard will be ongoing to determine a minimum effective dosing plan in the near future.
    If you still have any questions about using Fluconazole,don't hesitate to ask.
    Thank you to everyone who has been and continues to help and contribute in the thread. R2R has the best reefing community around!!!

    NCreefguy
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
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  2. bruleyii

    bruleyii Well-Known Member

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    Are you seeing progress? Im not seeing any in these pictures but like you said they are a bit blurry.
     
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  3. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Photo of the Month Award

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    May I ask what your nutrints run in general, your cal/alk dosing method as well as alk, and your Ph in general?
     
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  4. NCreefguy

    NCreefguy Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    No progress yet but from what most have said changes start around 4-5 days in.
     
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  5. NCreefguy

    NCreefguy Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    Nutrient levels have been an issue in itself. I've got a DSB (4"-6")that has been in my tank for over 14 years and over the past year or two water changes don't help bring my nutrients down. No3 ran in the 30's or higher and Po4 over 1 and up. Ph has been low(ish) in the past running around 8-8.10 during the day but 7.75 at night. I have made a bunch of changes lately though trying to fix these issues. First I ran an air hose from under our house to the skimmer air intake. This kept my ph up at night to about 7.90-7.95 and daytime 8.15-8.2 constant.Then I added an Avast kalk stirrer to my ato and my ph has been 8.30-8.35 daytime and 8.15-8.20 at night. This has taken care of my cal/alk as well for the time being as my corals were not using enough yet to use my calcium reactor. I do have my calrx set up just not running until its needed. Now i bit the bullet and SLOWLY started cleaning and removing some of my DSB. I know I probably had about a 50/50 shot at this working or crashing the tank but I do have a couple other systems running in the building in case I needed to move everything. I could have just broken it all down and started over but didn't. After several weeks of vacuuming the sand all the way to the bottom and getting the black and brown nastiness out my nitrates are around 12 and phos around .34 My alkalinity has always been towards the high side around 10 so I don't want to drop the nutrients too low.
     
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  6. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Photo of the Month Award

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    Thanks. Ive been playing the slow up and down nutrient game since June(nearly croaked my softies too), to no avail. Generally I'm running lower cal/alk numbers and through most of the year my ph is (happily) 8.1 is and a bit higher with few swings(save in my sumpless 30) and those aren't extreme, lucky guesses and good planning on my part and luck I suppose. last few months Ive pretty much given up and just keep the corals happy and the tooth brush near the tank.:rolleyes: thats working for the corals.
    Im actually trying to figure now why my bryopsis colonies keep crashing. I'm losing whole chunks in the last several weeks. Its almost gone in my 30g and the 55 is close. The only change from 35 days ago is the PH. Its lower now in general, as Ive started using the furnace. Im in so cal, so we only started using the furnace mid Dec ish.
     
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  7. philfree

    philfree Well-Known Member

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    following along.
    Im currently in the process of using vibrant to treat my byopsis. So far i havent seen any impact on it. Although it has slowly started killing off my bubble algae, but now ive gained some cyano.
    looking forward to seeing the result from fluconazole
     
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  8. NCreefguy

    NCreefguy Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    I can remember back when I ran PCs or homemade MH/T12 light fixtures,used IO salt,dripped pickling lime,topped off water by hand using an old milk jug,used some calcium chloride and baking soda here and there not really worrying about much as far as nutrients or parameters and my corals grew so fast they would fill up the tank. Now I try to use all the "top of the line" equipment and additives and play the "lets chase numbers game" and have nothing but issues and stress. Go figure :rolleyes:

    If this treatment doesn't kill my Bryopsis, I may need you to send me a bottle of your tanks secret Bryopsis killing elixir water. :D
     
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  9. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Photo of the Month Award

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    right. Im doing my best to stay simple. I havent been doing this nearly as long as you, so I'm still playing with" natural" :rolleyes:methods.
    Its mostly Trader Joes Whiskey and R Farleys articles + a few books from the 80's and 90's. Ive found similar but not conclusive evidence there. And the whiskey is $14.
     
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  10. NCreefguy

    NCreefguy Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    I have had a cyano/diatom/dino thing going on while using Vibrant as well. I'm not sure if it was caused directly by something in Vibrant or indirectly from Vibrant changing my tanks chemistry like dropping some of the nutrients quickly but not others. I can tell you that you don't want to over-do it with Vibrant as it will drop your nitrates fast enough to make your sps corals really unhappy.If this happens I would lower your lighting intensity and feed a little more until they recover.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  11. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Photo of the Month Award

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    lol, yea Ive been watching that stuff pretty closley, whole other topic. and apparently i don't need it. that's my luck so far in reefing..
     
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  12. nova65ss

    nova65ss Well-Known Member

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    Following along 2 year battle with bryopsis it's no joke!
     
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  13. NCreefguy

    NCreefguy Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    Just wanted to show that after 2 full days of treatment,my tanks inhabitants are still happy and doing their thing..

    [​IMG]


    Corals still have good PE....

    [​IMG]

    As best that I can tell I see no signs of stress on anything in the tank.
     
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  14. nova65ss

    nova65ss Well-Known Member

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    Havent googled yet but whats the theory behind how it works?
     
  15. NCreefguy

    NCreefguy Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    I'm not sure anyone has posted a theory behind it yet because it's still a new test and there still could be more mitigating factors behind why it has worked for those who have tried it. I'm not sure if all the others had multiple common factors included with their experience or not. It could honestly be a mix of something else that they were all using in conjunction with the Fluconazole that killed their Bryopsis. I swear if they were all using IO salt I'm switching back. :D



    @twilliard or @jason2459 Would have to chime in on the how and why as this is way over my pay grade. :)
     
  16. twilliard

    twilliard I am still alive! 1 summer course in action R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad

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    I am awaiting my shipment and for someone to send me some bryopsis! One this all happens I will be all over it.
     
  17. jason2459

    jason2459 Not a paid scientist R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    Posted this in another thread on what may cause a reaction with bryopsis

    ....

    This is cool and all

    "This inhibition prevents the conversion of lanosterol to ergosterol, an essential component of the fungal cytoplasmic membrane, and subsequent accumulation of 14α-methyl sterols.[20] Fluconazole is primarily fungistatic; however, it may be fungicidal against certain organisms in a dose-dependent manner, specifically Cryptococcus.[29]"

    But its ability to disrupt this

    "Fluconazole is an inhibitor of the human cytochrome P450 system, particularly the isozyme CYP2C19 (CYP3A4 and CYP2C9 to lesser extent) [27]"

    I find most interesting. The cytochrome P450 system is not unique to humans or fungi. This also could disrupt the uptake of a vital element for bryopsis to live, Fe. Just a guess.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytochrome_P450


    So, be warned if that's it it could effect more then bryopsis like many other microorganisms.

    Like this interesting fact
    "Cytochrome P450 eryF (CYP107A1) originally from the actinomycete bacterium Saccharopolyspora erythraea is responsible for the biosynthesis of the antibiotic erythromycin by C6-hydroxylation of the macrolide 6-deoxyerythronolide B."


    Or

    "
    Plants
    Plant cytochrome P450s are involved in a wide range of biosynthetic reactions and target a diverse range of biomolecules. These reactions lead to various fatty acid conjugates, plant hormones, secondary metabolites, lignins, and a variety of defensive compounds.[44] Plant genome annotations suggest that Cytochrome P450 genes make up as much as 1% of the plant genes. The number and diversity of P450 genes is responsible, in part, for the multitude of bioactive compounds.[45]"
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  18. Sabellafella

    Sabellafella Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

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    Thanks for starting this, corals look great. Crossing my fingers for some magic to happen
     
  19. awais98

    awais98 Well-Known Member

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    Fluconazole is an antifungal
     
  20. NCreefguy

    NCreefguy Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    You are not alone, we are crossing our fingers as well. Do you know how many people have tore down their tanks and restarted or quit reefing all together because of this mess....This could really change things. We hope.
     
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