Bubble Algae Eradication with Unexpected Nutrient Results

[Steve2020]

I am in my 12th day of my bubble algae eradication routine and most of the bubble algae is either gone or transparent and soon to be gone. During this process I was expecting both my NO3 and PO4 to increase due to dying bubble algae but that has not been the case. Prior to the eradication process my nutrients were fairly stable with NO3 between 7-10ppm and PO4 between 0.07-0.1ppm. After day 5 my NO3 increased to 13.6ppm with no difference in PO4. Today is day 12 and my NO3 increased to 18.6ppm with no change in PO4. Why would I see the expected increase in NO3 but no change in PO4? I was expecting both to increase but that has not been the case. I have a DND and for the past 4-6 months it has been on NO3 stability mode but today I put it back into NO3 reducing mode.

 

[blaxsun]

See other post.

 

[IPT]

What is the "Bubble algae eradication routine"?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am in my 12th day of my bubble algae eradication routine and most of the bubble algae is either gone or transparent and soon to be gone. During this process I was expecting both my NO3 and PO4 to increase due to dying bubble algae but that has not been the case. Prior to the eradication process my nutrients were fairly stable with NO3 between 7-10ppm and PO4 between 0.07-0.1ppm. After day 5 my NO3 increased to 13.6ppm with no difference in PO4. Today is day 12 and my NO3 increased to 18.6ppm with no change in PO4. Why would I see the expected increase in NO3 but no change in PO4? I was expecting both to increase but that has not been the case. I have a DND and for the past 4-6 months it has been on NO3 stability mode but today I put it back into NO3 reducing mode.

I don't know if any of the changes you see are real as opposed to test error, but there are at least two reason to expect what you observed.

1. There is much more N than P in algae (as well as all organisms), and if it dies and releases both, you'd expect a far lower increase in phosphate.

2. Phosphate is in equilibrium with binding to rock and sand surfaces. Any time you try to raise or lower it, the size of those changes are reduced as more goes onto or off of the calcium carbnonate surfaces. This tends to reduce any swing in phosphate.

 

[Steve2020]

What is the "Bubble algae eradication routine"?

It is the combination of two products I used to get rid of the bubble algae and how I used them. For me it worked great. Bubble algae completely gone now and there where no bad side effects to the corals or fish. If you want to know more on what I used and how I used them I can give more detail if desired.

 

[Darstar301]

Yes, please. Please provide details on the steps.

 

[Steve2020]

Yes, please. Please provide details on the steps.

I will get back with the details a little later today. I was just heading out to do a little yard work and put some food spikes in the ground for the apple trees. Weather is nice here in MN but soon to change back to cold for a few days.

 

[FlowGod]

I just manually remove it

 

[Steve2020]

I just manually remove it

I agree manual removal and bubble algae eating critters are the way to go and I did some manual removal with the bubble algae I could get too and have the critters, but some of the critters would not touch it and the ones that did just could not keep up with the spread. Even made a tool for manual removal but when you have 250+ pounds of rock that can't be removed and the rock has many holes, crevasses and caves that are impossible to get to then you need to do something else to get rid of it unless you just want to live with it. If you don't get rid of all of it it will continue to spread like wildfire.

I made this tool and have different lengths so I didn't have to put my hands in the water. Worked great for the bubble algae I could get too.

 

[FlowGod]

I agree manual removal and bubble algae eating critters are the way to go and I did some manual removal with the bubble algae I could get too and have the critters, but some of the critters would not touch it and the ones that did just could not keep up with the spread. Even made a tool for manual removal but when you have 250+ pounds of rock that can't be removed and the rock has many holes, crevasses and caves that are impossible to get to then you need to do something else to get rid of it unless you just want to live with it. If you don't get rid of all of it it will continue to spread like wildfire.

I made this tool and have different lengths so I didn't have to put my hands in the water. Worked great for the bubble algae I could get too.

Love it man. Yeah manual removal is the hardest way to go, but definitely the safest. I have been battling it for a year or two and kind of started to accept the little patches. I just absolutely HATE the small free floating pieces that get stuck on my powerheads and overflow. I was cleaning my powerheads everyday before I fed just because so many bubbles were sucked on there. Still looking for eradication...

 

[Steve2020]

First I would like to say that the bubble algae introduction into my tank was my fault. I purchased a couple SPS frags that the frag plugs were incrusted so I did not remove the plug. During the dipping process I must of missed some bubble algae. I went 2yrs without any algae issues until I put these frags in.
When I noticed the bubble algae in the tank I purchased some Pitho crabs and Emerald crabs to see if they would take care of the bubble algae. Some would eat it and some would not. I have a 7" Magnificent Foxface and he would pick at it but not enough to stop the spread. He preferred the frozen food and the daily nori I put on the clip more than the bubble algae. I started doing manual removal with some tools I made but with my aquascape there was no way to get it all and it just continued to spread. After much frustration, while doing some research I ran across Parker's Reef on You Tube who just happened to post his eradication process. He has around 25K subscribers and many more follower's and has been posting on You Tube for 9yrs. I highly recommend taking a look at his You Tube page.
First I would like to say that the process I used may not be for everyone and I am not saying that this process is 100% safe but I can say it worked for me and did not loose any fish, corals, crustaceans or snails. None of my corals showed any kind of adverse affect at all. No polyp retraction or tissue loss.
After watching Parker's Reef on his process and a discussion with David ( plant manager ) for Brightwell Aquatics I decided to give this a try. Parker's Reef used 3 products from Continuum which is the same products from Brightwell.
Continuum:, Brightwell Aquatics:
Redox Plus, Redoxlclean
Clean Equation, Razor
Bacter Clean M, Microbacter Clean
For my process I used the products from Brightwell.
To start I did not follow Parker's Reef process exactly. After some more research and a recommendation I read from Randy Holmes-Farley I did not use the Redoxlclean because he believes it may be a Potassium Permanganate product which is a very strong oxidizer and you need to be very careful when using the stuff. I felt using this product was not necessary for me because I am already using a Sochting Oxydator in my tank.
My total water volume is 255gal but for this process I rounded down to 250gal. It is very important to know your total water volume and not just guess at it especially if you have a small tank. If you have to guess at it I would be conservative with your estimate because you DO NOT want to overdose Razor. For me I know what my water volume is within a few gallons because it was measured during the initial tank fill with all the rock and sand in the tank and equipment in place in the sump and running.
When the Razor and Microbacter Clean arrived I noticed there was a discrepancy between the Brightwell online instructions and what the instructions on the bottles said. This had to do with the order you add the two. Microbacter Clean on the website says if using Razor to add the MB Clean first but the instructions for Razor says to add after lights have been on for a few hours. I talked with David about this and he said that he agrees that does not make since and they will change the instructions on their webpage when using both. He told me that the addition of Razor a few hours after lights come on is by far more important than when you add MB Clean because Razor can lower O2 levels in the tank and you want to add it when there is good photosynthesis going on in the tank which for most of us is a few hours after your lights come on. Also you need to remove your mechanical filtration ( socks, filter fleece etc. ), shut down skimmer and UV for at least 4hrs when using MB Clean to get it's full effectiveness. For me and probably most of us if your lights come on at 7am you would add Razor lets say at 9am. That means if you added the MB Clean first you would be adding it no later than 5am. Just a note, nothing says you can't add MB Clean first dependent on your light schedule but things to remember are no mechanical filtration, skimmer or UV when using MB Clean but mechanical filtration, skimmer and UV if you have one needs to be in place when using Razor.

Before I get into my process I used I feel it is important that you know my setup for water agitation and equipment used for O2 saturation and what my tank parameters where before and after the process. I run 2 MP60's and 2 MP40's that create very good surface agitation as you can see in the video. I also run a CO2 scrubber skimmer recirc configuration that also brings in fresh outside air into the scrubber. Skimmer is a Reef Octopus Elite 220 INT which has a large L/HR air intake. I also run a Sochting Oxydator which supplies O2 to the tank. I also run a DND for controlling NO3.

Parameters measured prior to process:
ALK=9.2
Ca=450
Mag=1520
NO3= 8.7ppm
PO4=0.07ppm
NO2=0ppm
NH3=0ppm
PH=8.35-8.42 24hr swing
Salinity=34.9ppt

Parameters measured at end of process:
ALK=9.5
Ca=440
Mag=1520
NO3=18.3ppm
PO4=0.09ppm
NO2=0ppm
NH3=0ppm
PH=8.34-8.42 24hr swing
Salinity=35ppt

NO3 and PO4 measured 4 days ago one week after process complete:
NO3=11.1ppm
PO4=0.07ppm

As you can see as the bubble algae died off my NO3 went up quite a bit and the PO4 just went up slightly.
Both a week after the die off, the parameters are both coming down.

Process I used but will only discuss one day. Attached log will show the whole schedule:
Lights on at 7am.
Feed fish at 8am
Dose Razor at 9am
10am Vortech's go into a 75min Nutrient Transport Mode at 75%
Feed fish at 2pm
2:30pm Vortech's go into a 75min Nutrient Transport Mode at 75%
4pm Remove filter socks, shutdown skimmer and UV, dose MB Clean
8pm Install filter socks and turned on skimmer and UV

Around day 8 I started to see some of the bubble algae turn a milky color and some started to dislodge.
After 14 days 90-95% of bubble algae was gone. Because of no adverse affects and talking to David at Brightwell the decision was made to not do the water change or add Rox 0.8 carbon and just let the existing Razor stay in the tank for a few more days. Low and behold after 4 more days there is not one piece of bubble algae in the tank that can be seen.
On day 19 did a 10% water change and added carbon.
Day 23 removed carbon and did another 10% water change.

Fortunately I am retired to I was able to stick to a strict routine and monitor for any adverse affects which I believe was key to the success. If you can not stick to a strict routine to including adding the Razor at approx the same time every day this process may not be for you. Once again DO NOT overdose Razor. Follow the dosing instructions for Razor to the tee if using it. Using a little less than recommended is much better than using more and be exact on your measurements of the product according to David at Brightwell especially if you dosing to a smaller tank or have weak filtration.

Fill free to ask an questions you may have.

 

[IPT]

Man, that's crazy! Thanks for writing that up. I ended up resorting to wire wheeling and scouring all of my rocks and also bleaching a good chunk of them as well. I was "re-starting the tank" after a crash last year but the velonia was getting out of control. I'll bookmark this for sure.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

First I would like to say that the bubble algae introduction into my tank was my fault. I purchased a couple SPS frags that the frag plugs were incrusted so I did not remove the plug. During the dipping process I must of missed some bubble algae. I went 2yrs without any algae issues until I put these frags in.
When I noticed the bubble algae in the tank I purchased some Pitho crabs and Emerald crabs to see if they would take care of the bubble algae. Some would eat it and some would not. I have a 7" Magnificent Foxface and he would pick at it but not enough to stop the spread. He preferred the frozen food and the daily nori I put on the clip more than the bubble algae. I started doing manual removal with some tools I made but with my aquascape there was no way to get it all and it just continued to spread. After much frustration, while doing some research I ran across Parker's Reef on You Tube who just happened to post his eradication process. He has around 25K subscribers and many more follower's and has been posting on You Tube for 9yrs. I highly recommend taking a look at his You Tube page.
First I would like to say that the process I used may not be for everyone and I am not saying that this process is 100% safe but I can say it worked for me and did not loose any fish, corals, crustaceans or snails. None of my corals showed any kind of adverse affect at all. No polyp retraction or tissue loss.
After watching Parker's Reef on his process and a discussion with David ( plant manager ) for Brightwell Aquatics I decided to give this a try. Parker's Reef used 3 products from Continuum which is the same products from Brightwell.
Continuum:, Brightwell Aquatics:
Redox Plus, Redoxlclean
Clean Equation, Razor
Bacter Clean M, Microbacter Clean
For my process I used the products from Brightwell.
To start I did not follow Parker's Reef process exactly. After some more research and a recommendation I read from Randy Holmes-Farley I did not use the Redoxlclean because he believes it may be a Potassium Permanganate product which is a very strong oxidizer and you need to be very careful when using the stuff. I felt using this product was not necessary for me because I am already using a Sochting Oxydator in my tank.
My total water volume is 255gal but for this process I rounded down to 250gal. It is very important to know your total water volume and not just guess at it especially if you have a small tank. If you have to guess at it I would be conservative with your estimate because you DO NOT want to overdose Razor. For me I know what my water volume is within a few gallons because it was measured during the initial tank fill with all the rock and sand in the tank and equipment in place in the sump and running.
When the Razor and Microbacter Clean arrived I noticed there was a discrepancy between the Brightwell online instructions and what the instructions on the bottles said. This had to do with the order you add the two. Microbacter Clean on the website says if using Razor to add the MB Clean first but the instructions for Razor says to add after lights have been on for a few hours. I talked with David about this and he said that he agrees that does not make since and they will change the instructions on their webpage when using both. He told me that the addition of Razor a few hours after lights come on is by far more important than when you add MB Clean because Razor can lower O2 levels in the tank and you want to add it when there is good photosynthesis going on in the tank which for most of us is a few hours after your lights come on. Also you need to remove your mechanical filtration ( socks, filter fleece etc. ), shut down skimmer and UV for at least 4hrs when using MB Clean to get it's full effectiveness. For me and probably most of us if your lights come on at 7am you would add Razor lets say at 9am. That means if you added the MB Clean first you would be adding it no later than 5am. Just a note, nothing says you can't add MB Clean first dependent on your light schedule but things to remember are no mechanical filtration, skimmer or UV when using MB Clean but mechanical filtration, skimmer and UV if you have one needs to be in place when using Razor.

Before I get into my process I used I feel it is important that you know my setup for water agitation and equipment used for O2 saturation and what my tank parameters where before and after the process. I run 2 MP60's and 2 MP40's that create very good surface agitation as you can see in the video. I also run a CO2 scrubber skimmer recirc configuration that also brings in fresh outside air into the scrubber. Skimmer is a Reef Octopus Elite 220 INT which has a large L/HR air intake. I also run a Sochting Oxydator which supplies O2 to the tank. I also run a DND for controlling NO3.

Parameters measured prior to process:
ALK=9.2
Ca=450
Mag=1520
NO3= 8.7ppm
PO4=0.07ppm
NO2=0ppm
NH3=0ppm
PH=8.35-8.42 24hr swing
Salinity=34.9ppt

Parameters measured at end of process:
ALK=9.5
Ca=440
Mag=1520
NO3=18.3ppm
PO4=0.09ppm
NO2=0ppm
NH3=0ppm
PH=8.34-8.42 24hr swing
Salinity=35ppt

NO3 and PO4 measured 4 days ago one week after process complete:
NO3=11.1ppm
PO4=0.07ppm

As you can see as the bubble algae died off my NO3 went up quite a bit and the PO4 just went up slightly.
Both a week after the die off, the parameters are both coming down.

Process I used but will only discuss one day. Attached log will show the whole schedule:
Lights on at 7am.
Feed fish at 8am
Dose Razor at 9am
10am Vortech's go into a 75min Nutrient Transport Mode at 75%
Feed fish at 2pm
2:30pm Vortech's go into a 75min Nutrient Transport Mode at 75%
4pm Remove filter socks, shutdown skimmer and UV, dose MB Clean
8pm Install filter socks and turned on skimmer and UV

Around day 8 I started to see some of the bubble algae turn a milky color and some started to dislodge.
After 14 days 90-95% of bubble algae was gone. Because of no adverse affects and talking to David at Brightwell the decision was made to not do the water change or add Rox 0.8 carbon and just let the existing Razor stay in the tank for a few more days. Low and behold after 4 more days there is not one piece of bubble algae in the tank that can be seen.
On day 19 did a 10% water change and added carbon.
Day 23 removed carbon and did another 10% water change.

Fortunately I am retired to I was able to stick to a strict routine and monitor for any adverse affects which I believe was key to the success. If you can not stick to a strict routine to including adding the Razor at approx the same time every day this process may not be for you. Once again DO NOT overdose Razor. Follow the dosing instructions for Razor to the tee if using it. Using a little less than recommended is much better than using more and be exact on your measurements of the product according to David at Brightwell especially if you dosing to a smaller tank or have weak filtration.

Fill free to ask an questions you may have.

FWIW, I'm not a fan of some of these products with secret ingredients of dubious nature, but that said, what color was the redox plus? Trying to figure out what it is.

 

[Steve2020]

FWIW, I'm not a fan of some of these products with secret ingredients of dubious nature, but that said, what color was the redox plus? Trying to figure out what it is.

Randy, I DID NOT USE the Redux Plus ( Redoxlclean ) based on a previous thread where I saw you believed it was Potassium Permanganate and you recommended not using it because of it's very high oxidizer properties. I felt this was something I did not need to use. From the video I saw from Parker's Reef it looked like a very dark purple liquid and used very little so I believe you were correct in your assumption of it being Potassium Permanganate. The only 2 products I used were Razor which has a very light blue color in case your curious and MB Clean.

Below was in my original post:
To start I did not follow Parker's Reef process exactly. After some more research and a recommendation I read from Randy Holmes-Farley I did not use the Redoxlclean because he believes it may be a Potassium Permanganate product which is a very strong oxidizer and you need to be very careful when using the stuff. I felt using this product was not necessary for me because I am already using a Sochting Oxydator in my tank.

 

[mikael_t]

Brightwell Razor, CAS: 42751-79-1. Wastewater flocc.

 

[GarrettT]

Following. I’m on my 9th week of vibrant without any success.

 

[Steve2020]

Following. I’m on my 9th week of vibrant without any success.

Holy " YOU KNOW WHAT "! That is a lot of bubble! Is that on a rock or sand? I had non on the sand and all of my 250lbs of rock maybe had that total amount. How large is your tank? I have zero experience with Vibrant but I have heard it can crash your nutrient's down to zero. Is that true?

 

[FlowGod]

A few pounds I removed in one go. Took quite a while to clean out by hand. I never had success with Vibrant. I had a bottle and ended up just tossing it because I wasn't seeing any improvements

 

[Steve2020]

A few pounds I removed in one go. Took quite a while to clean out by hand

WOW! When I first did manual removal the largest section I had was the size of a half-dollar and not many of them. Most of mine was bean size clumps. The reason I did the process I did was to get rid of the bubble algae that was in areas that where unreachable to stop any spreading and it worked great. At least it did for me. I am not sure if I would use the process I used with that much algae due to I think you would get one heck of a nutrient spike from the die off. Just my opinion.

 

[FlowGod]

WOW! When I first did manual removal the largest section I had was the size of a half-dollar and not many of them. Most of mine was bean size clumps. The reason I did the process I did was to get rid of the bubble algae that was in areas that where unreachable to stop any spreading and it worked great. At least it did for me. I am not sure if I would use the process I used with that much algae due to I think you would get one heck of a nutrient spike from the die off. Just my opinion.

That makes sense. I have those hard spots with little algal colonies still growing that I need to try and get at. I was not on top of my husbandry and that tank got out of hand there for a bit (100% my fault). I like how detailed your system is though, if it really gets out of hand again I am trying your procedure.