Ca reactor solenoid questions

[Acronuts]

I tested my water par and noticed that my
ca was at 420
my alk was a 6.3
mag at 1290
I figured I would increase the dpm for the co2. When I opened the value I noticed that the bubbles did not increase at all. It rated at 3 bubbles per minute. I opened the tanks handle as much as it would but still no increase bubbles.
I am not very familiar with reading the values since this ca reactor was bought 2nd hand with no manufacturor instructions.
But from what I could tell...........
The left side measures if your looking at the red numbers 1100 kg/cm2
Black numbers read 75 lb/in2
The right side measures in red 30 kg/cm2
This measurement is what I am not sure about in the Black the needle is on the 2nd line between the 2 and the 4. Not sure what this measurement is.

Does this mean I have an empty tank?
Does it mean I have a bad solenoid?
Should I turn the ca reactor off until I get things sorted out and start dosing kalk or 2 part dosing?
I will also try and contact the JBJ manufacture and see if I can get some help there too.
Thanks all for any extra info guys!

 

[Murfman]

Did you try and open the needle valve to allow more CO2 out? That is what controls your bubble flow. The gauge on the left shows what the pressure inside the cylinder is. When it gets down to about 500, you probably want to get it refilled. What is controlling your your solenoid? Mine is controlled by my AC Jr. When pH is too low it shuts off. When it is too high, it turns it on.

 

[Acronuts]

Right now nothing is controlling it. It has been plugged in since 9/22 when I did a whole upgrade.

According to the jbj website the right side meausre the out going pressure.
I am NOW totally confused!!!

Did you try and open the needle valve to allow more CO2 out? That is what controls your bubble flow. The gauge on the left shows what the pressure inside the cylinder is. When it gets down to about 500, you probably want to get it refilled. What is controlling your your solenoid? Mine is controlled by my AC Jr. When pH is too low it shuts off. When it is too high, it turns it on.

 

[Murfman]

Something has to control it to turn the solenoid off and on.

 

[Paul_N]

Does your regulator setup on your CO2 tank look like this?:

 

[Acronuts]

Here is what mine looks like:
The green tube hose is attached to the ca reactor co2 chamber like it shows in the 2nd pic.

Interestingly enough with these pics I have noticed a change in the readings from earlier this morning.
I think I have no co2 left. What do you think?

Does your regulator setup on your CO2 tank look like this?:

 

[xrayrider]

I have run my selenoid with no controller before. If you plug it directly into an outlet, with out a controller, it actually still preforms a very important function. It shuts off the co2 in the event that you have a power outage, keeping the co2 from flowing into the reactor while the pumps are off due to the power outage. This prevents a meltdown in the reactor, which is bad enough, but can crash your tank when the power comes back on, and the pumps push all that consentrated effluent into the tank way too fast. A controller actually makes a calcium reactor a little less efficient, as the co2 is being shut off, then has to build up to a level once it comes on, only to be shut off again once it gets there. The constant up and down fluctuatuion is less efficient then a continous flow rate for the co2. If you get the reactor dialed in right, with out a controller, and then use the controller as a fail safe device it will use less co2 to do the same job. I now use a controller just to turn off the reactor if the ph gets too high inside the reactor body, to prevent a melt down. I use a second probe in the tank, to shut down the reactor if the tank PH gets to high.

 

[Acronuts]

Thanks as well.
I realize that a controller is needed. I also found out today that JBJ no longer manufatures solenoids.
What I will check this evening is to see if there are any clogs in the lines.
Then what I need to know is which dial tells me the amount of co2 in the cylinder itself.
Then next is to find out who fills these containers.

I have run my selenoid with no controller before. If you plug it directly into an outlet, with out a controller, it actually still preforms a very important function. It shuts off the co2 in the event that you have a power outage, keeping the co2 from flowing into the reactor while the pumps are off due to the power outage. This prevents a meltdown in the reactor, which is bad enough, but can crash your tank when the power comes back on, and the pumps push all that consentrated effluent into the tank way too fast. A controller actually makes a calcium reactor a little less efficient, as the co2 is being shut off, then has to build up to a level once it comes on, only to be shut off again once it gets there. The constant up and down fluctuatuion is less efficient then a continous flow rate for the co2. If you get the reactor dialed in right, with out a controller, and then use the controller as a fail safe device it will use less co2 to do the same job. I now use a controller just to turn off the reactor if the ph gets too high inside the reactor body, to prevent a melt down. I use a second probe in the tank, to shut down the reactor if the tank PH gets to high.

 

[110reef]

You can get the cylinders filled at fire extinguisher shops, also paintball supply places may be able to do it, or beverage supply place. It costs me $5 to fill a 5 lb container.

That being said, your gauge readings in the picture do not indicate an empty cylinder. The gauge on the left is the cylinder itself, the gauge on the right is the pressure to the Ca Reactor. In your case, it reads 600 psi in the bottle and 25psi to the calcium reactor, which is plenty on both counts. Either your solenoid isn't open, your needle valve(s) are not open enough, or you have line pluggage somewhere.

 

[110reef]

The adjustment you want is the brass knob below and to the right of the bubble chamber, above the solenoid plastic casing in this picture - that is the needle valve.

 

[Paul_N]

The adjustment you want is the brass knob below and to the right of the bubble chamber, above the solenoid plastic casing in this picture - that is the needle valve.

+1 make sure you are controlling via the needle valve 110reef mentioned. The big knob in the middle just controls the pressure. The needle valve is the one that controls the flow and how much is released. You can have the pressure set properly with the middle valve but have the needle valve closed completely and no CO2 will be released.

 

[Acronuts]

Well guys here is where it stands right now.
I have checked the lines from the solenoid to valve that prevents water from flowing to solenoid during power outages and no clogs.
No clogs from the valve to actual co2 chamber where the bubble counter is. Refer to pic #2.
I also opened all the other lines and water flow seems to be fine.
Could it be that the tank is empty and the gauges are not working properly?
Should I just try and get the tank refilled?

Should I take it all apart and start from the beginning? (I really don't want to do this)

 

[Acronuts]

You guys are not going to believe this!
10 mins after I posted. I wen to tank to just shut the ca reactor off. Guess WHAT?
The co2 chamber was just BUBBLING away!
Wow!
Maybe there was something clogging the lines. I did not see anything from the lines I checked.
Could the lines from the other parts of the reactor also play a role?

And finally guys I will be looking into buying a controller. But what do I do in the meantime. Maybe I'll win reefnooks!
How should I run the reactor without a conroller? It has been running 24/7 since 9/22/09
I can put the reactor and solenoid on a timer.
Look forward to your responses!

 

[110reef]

You will need to adjust the rate of bubbles so that it just meets the demand of your tank. Pretty hard to do without a pH monitor, if you get too much CO2 in the reactor you will turn the media into mush. You will need to take a lot of calcium and alk readings as you adjust the reactor. However, a good place to start is a bubble every 3-5 seconds. I would look up the instructions to your particular Calcium reactor on-line, that may give you some insight on running it, or read other threads on how people have set theirs up. I personally wouldn't want to run mine without the pH controller, although some people do.

 

[benny z]

Operating Instructions for the Milwaukee MA957


BEFORE YOU START! :

Secure cylinders so that they will not tip or fall.

Inspect the cylinder valves for damaged threads, dirt, oil, or grease. Remove dust and dirt with a clean cloth.

Crack open the cylinder valve for an instant to blow out any foreign matter in the throat of the cylinder.



ATTACHING THE REGULATOR:

Attach the regulator to the cylinder valve placing the supplied plastic o-ring (not shown) between the regulator and the tank. Tighten with a wrench. Omission of this o-ring will cause loss of gas!

Unscrew the large brass ring (G) from the Bubble Counter (H) and fill the bubble counter 1/2 full of fresh water. Be sure the needle valve (B) is closed before filling with water. Once filled, replace the brass o-ring (G).

Before opening the cylinder valve turn the regulator adjustment knob (E) counter clockwise until tension is no longer felt on the knob. Do not fully remove the regulator flow adjustment knob. IF THE CYLINDER VALVE IS OPENED WITH THE REGULATOR KNOB CLOSED, DAMAGE TO THE REGULATOR CAN RESULT!

VERY SLOWLY and CAREFULLY openthe cylinder valve COMPLETELY to seal the cylinder valve packing. The amount of gas in the cylinder can now be read on the High Pressure Gauge (D).

Plug the solenoid (C) into a suitable, grounded, AC Wall outlet, Hanna pH Mini Controller, or Milwaukee SMS122 pH Controller. The solenoid uses slightly more then 6 watts and it is normal for it to feel warm during operation.

Open the needle valve (B) by turning counter-clockwise.

Turn the adjustment knob (E) clockwise until you get a reading on the Low Pressure Gauge (F) of approximately 10lbs on the outside set of numbers (use the numbers on the top row). You should now see bubbles in the counter.

Unplug the Solenoid (C) from the wall or controller and unscrew the compression fitting and pass the air hose through the fitting and attach the tubing to the nipple (A). Be sure your tubing fits tightly on the nipple and that it is pressed all the way down. Slide the compression fitting onto the nipple and tighten.

Plug the Solenoid (C) back into the wall outlet or pH Controller unit and adjust the bubble count on your reactor using the needle valve (B). Fine tuning the count can be accomplished with either the needle valve (B) and by adjusting the regulator output pressure with adjustment knob (E) as discussed in the pevious step. The more you increase the pressure as indicated on the low pressure gauge (F) the more difficult it will be to fine tune your bubble count using needle valve (B). Therefore it is more desirable to keep the pressure indicated on the low pressure gauge (F) low and adjust your bubble count using the Needle Valve (B).

.....

 

[AZDesertRat]

Go to www.geosreef.com and click on one of the calcium reactors pictured to bring up a very detailed but easy to follow set of directions on how to set a reactor up. They are generic enough to work with any reactor.

 

[Acronuts]

Thanks guys i appreciate your advice. I d have the setup info for my Koralline ca reactor. I got at RC thru a thread there.
I am stilling questioning until I get a controller, how should I run the ca reactor.
Oldly enough some company who carries my type of solenoid suggests turning on the solenoid when my lights come on.Their thought is that you don't want to add co2 at night because the tank itself is producing co2. Too much co2 will cause the ph to drop.
The problem is that they do not mention on what to do with the other side of the reactor. I can always unplug the solenoid and the ehiem pump that runs the other part of the reactor. I guess all I need to hear is that it is ok to shut it all down with a timer and then when the actincs come on have the reactor and solenoid come on about 1 hour later. Then have it shut off an hour after the mh turn off.
What do you guys think?

 

[110reef]

Well, you are not adding CO2 to the tank, you are adding it to the reactor, where it reacts with the media. You are ideally controlling the pH in the reactor, not your tank. If you shut it off at night, then your reactor will quit working and you won't be adding ca and alk to your tank all night long. One of the benefits of a calcium reactor is that you are continually adding back ca and alk, rather than in bunches if you use additives. So shutting it off for half a day takes away some of that benefit. Can you do it successfully? Sure. I'd rather have it on all the time, myself.

 

[Acronuts]

I have been running it 24/7 and thought that it need to be shut off.
Do you use a controller?

Well, you are not adding CO2 to the tank, you are adding it to the reactor, where it reacts with the media. You are ideally controlling the pH in the reactor, not your tank. If you shut it off at night, then your reactor will quit working and you won't be adding ca and alk to your tank all night long. One of the benefits of a calcium reactor is that you are continually adding back ca and alk, rather than in bunches if you use additives. So shutting it off for half a day takes away some of that benefit. Can you do it successfully? Sure. I'd rather have it on all the time, myself.

 

[benny z]

buy a controller. seriously. carx with no controller = disaster waiting to happen.

i highly recommend the reef fanatic digital controller for ease of use and reliability. i have 5 of them in use on different systems. by far the best controller i have used...