calcium levels are high and Alkalinity low

[nycfishy]

My calcium levels are high and Alkalinity low, how concerned should I bed and what can I do? I thought these two should stay in synch.

	Dec. 12	Dec. 13	Dec. 14	Dec. 15	Dec. 16	Dec. 17	Dec. 18	Dec. 19
Alk	7.29	7.24	7.25	7.21	7.14	7.05	6.95	6.94
Calc		532	518	535	523	534	528	541

Tank is 525 Liter red sea that has been running well for 3 years

Dosing 30ml/day of DIY all for reef, so 30 dH and 1290mg calcium /day/

(the carbo calcium component provides 43,000/mg and 6,000 dH per 1000ml of solution)

Auto water change 6000ml/day with tropic marin pro-reef

Mag and pH is a little low at 1351 and 7.7 average for time period above

I got a trident about 4 weeks ago, did calibration after one week of start-up and before the results above. After calibration I did dose enough (one time) Alk to get up to 8 dh and then saw it drop off.

I want to keep things as simple as possible and my corals are growing again after a long battle with very high phosphates so don’t want to change much but feel Alk level needs correcting.

Just tried checking my alk with hanna test but I’m getting a reading of zero so thinking my reagent may have gone back, will order more so I can confirm trident results. Tank pic form today attached

I have an unused head on my Neptune DOS so I can dose alk component of 2-part but concerned my consumption imbalance might be indicative of something more serious.

 

[nycfishy]

any suggestions on my calc/alk being out of balance? TMI in my post?

 

[homer1475]

Not an issue.

You'll often find alkalinity outpaces calcium consumption. Specially with our hobby grade test kits. The relatively small CAL decline, in refrence to ALK, often times will not show up on our test kits.

I would dose an alkalinity supplement(like baking soda) to raise ALK to your desired level(although 7.2 is absolutely fine). Then continue with the AFR.

 

[nycfishy]

Not an issue.

You'll often find alkalinity outpaces calcium consumption. Specially with our hobby grade test kits. The relatively small CAL decline, in refrence to ALK, often times will not show up on our test kits.

I would dose an alkalinity supplement(like baking soda) to raise ALK to your desired level(although 7.2 is absolutely fine). Then continue with the AFR.

I dosed to get it up to 8 and then it dropped back down to numbers I posted about a week later. Was hoping ot understand the imbalance and correct so I would not have to always dose alk.

 

[homer1475]

While I've never used AFR(prefer just regular 2 part dosing), if your ALK is falling, your not dosing enough.

 

[Rmckoy]

I’ve never used afr and prefer esv 2 part
While your numbers seam fine even with the higher cal ,
Alk consumption will generally be higher .

 

[Shirak]

When I was using TM Pro the alk was around 7ish. That will pull your tank levels down slowly too if you want to keep the tank around 8. You will need to dose the tank more or adjust the newly mixed saltwater.

 

[nycfishy]

I’ve never used afr and prefer esv 2 part
While your numbers seam fine even with the higher cal ,
Alk consumption will generally be higher .

with 2 part you can vary the alk and calc amounts if needed, with AFR they are supposed be consumed equally.
I'd like to raise my alkalinity to something closer to 9 but concerned if I dose enough to do that my calcium levels will climb to some very high levels (till it precipitates out?) as it's not being consumed at the same rate as the alk.

 

[homer1475]

From my understanding AFR is only used to maintain levels, it will not raise them without haing one or the other out of wack.

Adjust with normal 2 part, then up the dosage of AFR to match your consumption.

 

[nycfishy]

From my understanding AFR is only used to maintain levels, it will not raise them without haing one or the other out of wack.

Adjust with normal 2 part, then up the dosage of AFR to match your consumption.

I did raise ALK with manual dosing, it quickly drops back down. My problem/concern is if I dose much higher amounts of AFR to keep alk where I want it then my calcium levels will go too high. For now I'd like to avoid switching to 2-part dosing.

 

[homer1475]

Can't help you then.....

How long after dosing are you checking levels with the AFR? I do know the carbon source has to be used up before the ALK will take effect. I'm pretty sure I've read Lou from tropic marin states not to test right away, but wait a few hours to even a 24 hours later.

I like to see instant results and hence dose regular 2 part. It's also way cheaper then AFR for larger tanks.

 

[nycfishy]

Can't help you then.....

How long after dosing are you checking levels with the AFR? I do know the carbon source has to be used up before the ALK will take effect. I'm pretty sure I've read Lou from tropic marin states not to test right away, but wait a few hours to even a 24 hours later.

I like to see instant results and hence dose regular 2 part. It's also way cheaper then AFR for larger tanks.

automated testing with Trident, and yes its at least 24 hour lag for alk levels to change because of how AFR works. they actually suggest dosing by tracking calc as that is quicker to change but in my case that would mean even lower alk.

 

[homer1475]

Ok now were getting to the meat of the subject.....

I realize you bought the trident to avoid manual testing(only reason I would buy one, but would still verify the test with a manual test), but have you run a manual test to see if the trident isn't out of wack?

I do not own a trident(don't trust auto testing, sorry), but have read many a thread where the CAL was off by a lot with the trident, when in fact it really wasn't.

 

[Shirak]

automated testing with Trident, and yes its at least 24 hour lag for alk levels to change because of how AFR works. they actually suggest dosing by tracking calc as that is quicker to change but in my case that would mean even lower alk.

On my current frag system which is using AFR I tweak the Alk weekly. Corals look good and Ca/Mg are good so...Rather than up the AFR I just tweak the Alk with some bicarb when needed.

 

[Rmckoy]

with 2 part you can vary the alk and calc amounts if needed, with AFR they are supposed be consumed equally.
I'd like to raise my alkalinity to something closer to 9 but concerned if I dose enough to do that my calcium levels will climb to some very high levels (till it precipitates out?) as it's not being consumed at the same rate as the alk.

I’d maintain dosing equal amounts . Stability is far more important compared to the actual number .

there are a few dosing calculators .
randy Holmes has one I swear by .
you can choose the product to dose ,
Enter current values of each cal , alk and mag .
and dose accordingly

works great for me

 

[nereefpat]

One *problem with kalk-only dosing is that Ca eventually creeps up. Even though the dosing ratio and consumption ratio should be the same, as other elements get incorporated where Ca should be, resulting in Ca increasing over time. I wouldn't be surprised if carbocalcium has the same issue.

That being said, I think all systems need manual adjustment every once in a while. And I agree that alk is fine where it is and Ca isn't high enough to worry me too much.

 

[nycfishy]

Ok now were getting to the meat of the subject.....

I realize you bought the trident to avoid manual testing(only reason I would buy one, but would still verify the test with a manual test), but have you run a manual test to see if the trident isn't out of wack?

I do not own a trident(don't trust auto testing, sorry), but have read many a thread where the CAL was off by a lot with the trident, when in fact it really wasn't.

Respectfully disagree that this is the meat of the subject.

 

[nycfishy]

On my current frag system which is using AFR I tweak the Alk weekly. Corals look good and Ca/Mg are good so...Rather than up the AFR I just tweak the Alk with some bicarb when needed.

Do you just manually dose alK once a week? What is your target alK?

 

[nycfishy]

One *problem with kalk-only dosing is that Ca eventually creeps up. Even though the dosing ratio and consumption ratio should be the same, as other elements get incorporated where Ca should be, resulting in Ca increasing over time. I wouldn't be surprised if carbocalcium has the same issue.

That being said, I think all systems need manual adjustment every once in a while. And I agree that alk is fine where it is and Ca isn't high enough to worry me too much.

Agree ca is not at concerns levels at this point. I’m not talking about dosing kalk (but might reluctantly consider it as alternative to AFR). Though the kalk might help pH.
Just alK component of 2 part.

 

[Shirak]

Do you just manually dose alK once a week? What is your target alK?

I aim for 8.8-9 Yes about once a week. I use the Hanna checker and when it gets down to 8.3-8.5 I will mix up some RODI and appropriate amount of bicarbonate to get me back to around 9. I then add this in increments over the course of a day. Currently dosing 30ml/day AFR into my approx. 50gal frag tank setup.