Can it be saved or a lost cause?

[stalkem]

I got this frag at LFS about 2 months ago. They were always tiny, and never really opened fully. I thought it was my poor placement with too much light. I've also battled some dinos and hair algae, resulting in some light scrubbing with a soft bristle toothbrush.

None of them have seem to open in a while. Are they a lost cause? Should I just pull it and chuck it before something goes more awry and causes other negative affects in the tank?

I appreciate the wisdom of the Internet gods.

I also have another plug that I gave a light scrubbing to, and it's looking similarly angry. That one hasn't been mounted anywhere yet. The other 4 on the rack are still doing well.

Just checked parameters today:
425 Ca
1125 Mg (I might have prematurely called it blue too early)
11.2 KH
8.11 pH
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
I've been keeping nitrates and phosphates a bit high during my dino battle, and dosing Microbacter7 and Phytoplankton daily.
Nitrate between 5 and 10ppm
Phosphates around 0.2-0.25ppm

 

[Troylee]

Try a h202 dip and clean the algae off… it might come around

 

[stalkem]

For reference, probably one of the best photos I have of it, "in its prime."

 

[stalkem]

Try a h202 dip and clean the algae off… it might come around

Other than H2O2 dip, is my approach of gently scrubbing with a soft toothbrush the best approach to getting algae off?

 

[Troylee]

Other than H2O2 dip, is my approach of gently scrubbing with a soft toothbrush the best approach to getting algae off?

H202 is a good dip for zoas.. use the search engine here

 

[MnFish1]

There is no evidence that this is a disease - right? An H2O2 dip may damage it more IMHO. I would lover your light, consider increasing your flow (since high Alk and light and low flow = problems. IMHO you could do a gentle scrub. IMHO - your alkalinity is too high for the light level you have on those corals. Everything, though, is salvageable (in general).

 

[reef2021]

Zoas are resiliant. As others have said I also recommend a peroxide dip. Be aware it may upset your zoas even more.

I’ve done it once and my zoas were REALLY unhappy with it but they survived and the algae was gone.

 

[stalkem]

There is no evidence that this is a disease - right? An H2O2 dip may damage it more IMHO. I would lover your light, consider increasing your flow (since high Alk and light and low flow = problems. IMHO you could do a gentle scrub. IMHO - your alkalinity is too high for the light level you have on those corals. Everything, though, is salvageable (in general).

Do have suggestion for what to lower it to? I've already lowered as part of the dino battle. It's on an LPS setting, but I've lowered the whites to 40%, blues at 100%, and purples to 60% for daylight hours for 10:30 to 16:30. Sunset is 16:30 to 18:00, then moonlight to 22:00, and off until sunrise starts at 09:00.

 

[wculver]

I got this frag at LFS about 2 months ago. They were always tiny, and never really opened fully. I thought it was my poor placement with too much light. I've also battled some dinos and hair algae, resulting in some light scrubbing with a soft bristle toothbrush.

None of them have seem to open in a while. Are they a lost cause? Should I just pull it and chuck it before something goes more awry and causes other negative affects in the tank?

I appreciate the wisdom of the Internet gods.

I also have another plug that I gave a light scrubbing to, and it's looking similarly angry. That one hasn't been mounted anywhere yet. The other 4 on the rack are still doing well.

Just checked parameters today:
425 Ca
1125 Mg (I might have prematurely called it blue too early)
11.2 KH
8.11 pH
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
I've been keeping nitrates and phosphates a bit high during my dino battle, and dosing Microbacter7 and Phytoplankton daily.
Nitrate between 5 and 10ppm
Phosphates around 0.2-0.25ppm

To help answer your question about taking it out, if you have at least one pollyp left there is still hope. With such a small number left I would put some effort into saving them as they won't pose any harm in leaving in place.

Here is a link for the H2O2 dip that I have used in the past with success treating RTN (Rapid Tissue Necrosis) with Euphillia: https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/peroxide-dipping-guidelines-for-corals.4715/

Two suggestions I have based on the numbers you provided:

1. Sounds like you already know the Phosephates are on the high side. Work on getting those down. Be very careful with the Nopox. It will work to bring the numbers down but if you end up at zero on either N or P things go poorly in a hurry.

2. I see your alk is at 11.25. At one time I tried pushing that level and those corals that took the ride with me from 8-11 did well with it. The problem I faced is low success with new coral. I attribute this to being such a change from likely an 8-9 tank to 11+ being more than they could handle. I've had much more success running 9-9.5 with new coral.

 

[MnFish1]

Do have suggestion for what to lower it to? I've already lowered as part of the dino battle. It's on an LPS setting, but I've lowered the whites to 40%, blues at 100%, and purples to 60% for daylight hours for 10:30 to 16:30. Sunset is 16:30 to 18:00, then moonlight to 22:00, and off until sunrise starts at 09:00.

8-9 alkalinity. I'm can't go into your individual light setting - as I think the Alkalinity is part of the problem.

 

[stalkem]

To help answer your question about taking it out, if you have at least one pollyp left there is still hope. With such a small number left I would put some effort into saving them as they won't pose any harm in leaving in place.

Here is a link for the H2O2 dip that I have used in the past with success treating RTN (Rapid Tissue Necrosis) with Euphillia: https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/peroxide-dipping-guidelines-for-corals.4715/

Two suggestions I have based on the numbers you provided:

1. Sounds like you already know the Phosephates are on the high side. Work on getting those down. Be very careful with the Nopox. It will work to bring the numbers down but if you end up at zero on either N or P things go poorly in a hurry.

2. I see your alk is at 11.25. At one time I tried pushing that level and those corals that took the ride with me from 8-11 did well with it. The problem I faced is low success with new coral. I attribute this to being such a change from likely an 8-9 tank to 11+ being more than they could handle. I've had much more success running 9-9.5 with new coral.

I've been using Tropic Marin Pro Reef salt that my friend gifted me with the tank. I think that's just the alk with that mix. Is there a way to lower that without switching salts? I've added a hammer, a torch, and a mystery zoa pack, and everything seems to be doing great (except that one zoa)!

My goal was to keep the phosphates around .1 - .15 as I battled the dinos. I also took the protein skimmer out. I'm try to get that one down a little bit.

 

[MnFish1]

However as others have said Zoas can live for quite a while closed up. I do not think dips will be helpful here - unless there is an obvious disease

 

[stalkem]

However as others have said Zoas can live for quite a while closed up. I do not think dips will be helpful here - unless there is an obvious disease

Ok. I'll let it ride, and work on those numbers. Just seemed worrisome that the new Zoas that I got on the cyber weekend sales seem to be doing much better than that poor one.

 

[MnFish1]

Ok. I'll let it ride, and work on those numbers. Just seemed worrisome that the new Zoas that I got on the cyber weekend sales seem to be doing much better than that poor one.

Hmmm... that could be because of a number of reasons - but - I would hang loose - with no guarantees.

 

[wculver]

I've been using Tropic Marin Pro Reef salt that my friend gifted me with the tank. I think that's just the alk with that mix. Is there a way to lower that without switching salts? I've added a hammer, a torch, and a mystery zoa pack, and everything seems to be doing great (except that one zoa)!

My goal was to keep the phosphates around .1 - .15 as I battled the dinos. I also took the protein skimmer out. I'm try to get that one down a little bit.

Just looked up the info on Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt, that is here on BRS: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/content/post/tropic-marine-pro-reef-salt-mix-top-faq
In short, the alk should not be at 11. Take a look at the table in the FAQ. Tyipcally the alk is high because dosing is too high so you'd adjust that though I'm not sure you're dosing anything.

Taking the skimmer out I would definitley not recommend. That is what will take out the waste products that the dinos are feeding off of. Especially long term that is going to be a problem.

What I have in place includes:
- Protein skimmer
- Bio pellet reactor that is plumbed with effluent directly to the skimmer
- Chaeto with grow light
- I run high capacity Granualar Ferric Oxide for Phosphates as needed
- In the case that Nitrate gets too low I dose potassium nitrate
- Weekly water changes specifically for ionic balance at 10% (This is not for nutrient transport)

 

[stalkem]

Just looked up the info on Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt, that is here on BRS: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/content/post/tropic-marine-pro-reef-salt-mix-top-faq
In short, the alk should not be at 11. Take a look at the table in the FAQ. Tyipcally the alk is high because dosing is too high so you'd adjust that though I'm not sure you're dosing anything.

Taking the skimmer out I would definitley not recommend. That is what will take out the waste products that the dinos are feeding off of. Especially long term that is going to be a problem.

What I have in place includes:
- Protein skimmer
- Bio pellet reactor that is plumbed with effluent directly to the skimmer
- Chaeto with grow light
- I run high capacity Granualar Ferric Oxide for Phosphates as needed
- In the case that Nitrate gets too low I dose potassium nitrate
- Weekly water changes specifically for ionic balance at 10% (This is not for nutrient transport)

Thanks for the info!

I'll add the protein skimmer back into the mix. I thought I had read that it was pulling out nutrients that I wanted in there for dino competitors to take advantage of. It's just the Coralife tiny skimmer that I had wedged in chamber 1 of my Biocube, next to the heater, but it seemed to pull good amount of gunk and something is better than nothing, right?

Been working on a plan to get the Intake media basket into chamber 2 and ordered a Santa Monica Drop1.2x algae scrubber to share chamber 2.

And I added a Coralife Turbo Twist 3x on the back side of the stand and a Sicce 1.5 return to pump out through that and back into the return nozzle.

Trying to make the most out of my tiny space!