Cant catch a break

[m0jjen]

Stop chasing numbers, your PH isn't "chronicly low" again, back to the basics. Test your salt water for water changes. Keep you alk ca and mag stable and chart the ph, po and nitrate but stop chasing them.

Im not chasing anything, im just clarifying that my ph is below desired levels and that something i supressing it. I have not dosed nor changed anything to chance any number. If you read that posts i clarify that already. I do testa ca mg kh no3 and po4 along with the occational triton test.

Claming i chase numbers and throw in some random dosing isnt to helpfull since its not the case.

 

[RRA]

Im not chasing anything, im just clarifying that my ph is below desired levels and that something i supressing it. I have not dosed nor changed anything to chance any number. If you read that posts i clarify that already. I do testa ca mg kh no3 and po4 along with the occational triton test.

Claming i chase numbers and throw in some random dosing isnt to helpfull since its not the case.

PH definitely is not your issue, 5-10 year ago a good majority of reefers ran a PH at 7.7-8 with highly successful results. Wasn’t till recent the new cool thing is higher PH. Granted it is supported with research and is beneficial, but just another thing for reefers to chase and cause more unneeded fluctuations in my eyes if it’s not easily obtainable and stable naturally.

 

[m0jjen]

PH definitely is not your issue, 5-10 year ago a good majority of reefers ran a PH at 7.7-8 with highly successful results. Wasn’t till recent the new cool thing is higher PH. Granted it is supported with research and is beneficial, but just another thing for reefers to chase and cause more unneeded fluctuations in my eyes if it’s not easily obtainable and stable naturally.

While that is true id like to know what factors are for the supressed ph

Personally i boiled it down to high fish load and decaying mather/detritus

 

[Dan_P]

Hi!

So the title says it all. Tank not doing good, tanks havent done good for years. Tried it all i feel like.

About a year ago we bought a house and moved, exsisting tank moved into a holding tank and did pretty good in it while i was setting up the system. System has been up and running about 1 year now (same rock, same livestock same everything) as before move and from the holding tank.

System consists of a reefer 625XXL with a remote sump in a fish room. The sump is shared with a fragtank. Total volume about 850-900 litres 225 - 240 us gallons.

Problems im having is random alges, snot, cyano, dino you name it. one goes away another one comes around. Something all at once sometimes one at a time.

Filtration

Bubble king mini 200. About the right size for the system in my opinion. Always running and preforming great
Various biological media, Siporax in reactor, maxspect bio block and balls.
Occational filterfloss when blowing of rock and doing waterchanges
UV plumbed inline on the display return and regulated by valves.

Light
Over the display i use 3 radion xr30 pro gen 3. Getting abit outdated and probably due for a replacement, thinking ATI straton. But not quite yet. For the fragtank i use 2 hydra 32HD.

Flow
Display has 4 vortech set to 100% reefcrest, one side on anti sync and oneside mastering the reef crest.
Fragtank has various pump, tunze and jebao more than sufficient and probably overkill.

Dosing
Havent been doing much. Keep nitrates up around 5-10, i do waterchanges and done some cycles of microbacter7. Apart from that i keep alk stable with alkatronic and a calcium reactor. the reactor is running at a pH of 6.4 with a flowrate of 22 ml / min. Recently started with aquaforest traceelements with little to no change.

Maintainance
Pretty basic, 10% WC every week. blow of rock and remove detritus and what not. Take messurements before WC

Livestock
This might be the culpit for some problems. Im heavy on the fish side. A friend left the hobby and i got to take care of the fish.

2xYellow tang (medium)
1x Sailfin tang (medium)
3x Clownfish
2x Scopas tanks (their small)
2x Longnosed hawkfish
1x Capentri wrasse
1x Bristletooth Tomini Tang
1x White Tail Bristletooth Tang
1x Copperband butterfly (medium)
1x Purple tang (medium)

So alot of bigger sized fishes. That all consume oxygen and poops.

Problem
First of the nucianse alges and what not. Cant seem to shake it off. Tried a year of elbowgreace and keeping it stable. Wont do much.
Second corals are suffering, dying or barely haning on. Do a bigger or afew consecutive waterchanges and everything look ok for awhile and then back to normal
Third low PH. Daily PH around 7.7-7.9
Fourth alot of detritus nomather how much i remove it back the next week. In all areas, sump display and fragtank.


My belief of what wrong is two things mainly. The low ph and the amount of detritus. Nomather how i configure flow i cant seem to get the detritus to stay in the water colum and move to the sump it just settles. Might be due to my scape blocking flow or something along that line, i feel like i have a pretty ok scape that alows for flow tho. Did an ICP recently that dont show anything to off.

Any ideas?

Some things come to mind.

When you moved the aquarium, that was essentially a hard restart and subject to revisiting the uglies. No surprise there, just a big pain. The algae, if contaminated with cyanobacteria could be less appetizing to the clean up crew.

I am thinking that low trace elements levels are contributing to poor coral condition and possibly the persistence of the uglies.

The detritus accumulation might be a cosmetic issue only. That fluffy grey to brown junk is what I can bio-ash. Better mechanical filtration and flow (or stir it up daily) in the tank should help reduce the amount

 

[Mr. Roboto]

In this post by your words one takes it that you are dosing nitrates to keep them at 10....

It also says you did cycled of microbacter.

it also says you did Aquaforest trace elements


Just saying.

Dosing
Havent been doing much. Keep nitrates up around 5-10, i do waterchanges and done some cycles of microbacter7. Apart from that i keep alk stable with alkatronic and a calcium reactor. the reactor is running at a pH of 6.4 with a flowrate of 22 ml / min. Recently started with aquaforest traceelements with little to no change.

Claming i chase numbers and throw in some random dosing isnt to helpfull since its not the case.

I don't know if you mean to come across this way bud but it sounds like you are hyperfocused on numbers and moving them manually.

I don't mean to sound rude but when I say you are doing too much, it's the way this thread reads.

Your house could be simply sealed better causing a lower PH. It's fine. Alk should be the only thing you are adding if your tank is using it, these water changes you are pushing should be keeping Calc and Mag in check.

When I say go back to the basics, I mean look at everything. You could have some stray voltage from device that didn't make the move in the best shape. Check everything.

Again, I don't mean to sound rude but you are asking for help. We are simply throwing ideas. Lower the light cycle or power, point flow at troubled areas and check everything you put in and out of your tank.

I would prolly go as far as tossing everything in your RODI unit no matter what and start new again, even if you already did, check your salt mix, check all your equipment, clean anything and filter the p!ss out of it with socks. Siphon from the tank down to the socks anything that is in the display, use flow, use light cycles just back to the basics.

You are a good reef keeper as others have said if those pics were of before but this is a new tank now. It has a different attitude where it is now. You are going to have to find out again what makes this one happy. Sure she was fine before but she went through some changes.

Keep it simple and start working through things one at a time again. It will come to ya. Tanks don't need much but each one is different (even if it's the same tank in a different location)

 

[m0jjen]

Some things come to mind.

When you moved the aquarium, that was essentially a hard restart and subject to revisiting the uglies. No surprise there, just a big pain. The algae, if contaminated with cyanobacteria could be less appetizing to the clean up crew.

I am thinking that low trace elements levels are contributing to poor coral condition and possibly the persistence of the uglies.

The detritus accumulation might be a cosmetic issue only. That fluffy grey to brown junk is what I can bio-ash. Better mechanical filtration and flow (or stir it up daily) in the tank should help reduce the amount

This is inline with what im thinking. The move is clearly a major event, so no surprice in the backlash. Trace is dosed for this reason in moderate amounts.

 

[shwareefer]

You're not doing anything "too much". There's some 'not enough' though. Not enough microbial diversity, not enough corals. Maybe source some new live rock chunks to add some micro-competition. Corals are competition too - adding some hardy corals/ softies could be of benefit.

I agree your PH is not optimal. How are you measuring it?

I'm curious did you put some of the snot under a scope for positive ID?

 

[m0jjen]

In this post by your words one takes it that you are dosing nitrates to keep them at 10....

It also says you did cycled of microbacter.

it also says you did Aquaforest trace elements


Just saying.






I don't know if you mean to come across this way bud but it sounds like you are hyperfocused on numbers and moving them manually.

I don't mean to sound rude but when I say you are doing too much, it's the way this thread reads.

Your house could be simply sealed better causing a lower PH. It's fine. Alk should be the only thing you are adding if your tank is using it, these water changes you are pushing should be keeping Calc and Mag in check.

When I say go back to the basics, I mean look at everything. You could have some stray voltage from device that didn't make the move in the best shape. Check everything.

Again, I don't mean to sound rude but you are asking for help. We are simply throwing ideas. Lower the light cycle or power, point flow at troubled areas and check everything you put in and out of your tank.

I would prolly go as far as tossing everything in your RODI unit no matter what and start new again, even if you already did, check your salt mix, check all your equipment, clean anything and filter the p!ss out of it with socks. Siphon from the tank down to the socks anything that is in the display, use flow, use light cycles just back to the basics.

You are a good reef keeper as others have said if those pics were of before but this is a new tank now. It has a different attitude where it is now. You are going to have to find out again what makes this one happy. Sure she was fine before but she went through some changes.

Keep it simple and start working through things one at a time again. It will come to ya. Tanks don't need much but each one is different (even if it's the same tank in a different location)

Does it state that i dose nitrates? By my words. So still bacteria and trace elements. English isnt my native language and some grammatical error will occur.

No idea where you get the idea of me beeing number focused. Numbers stated have been nutrients which has been factored as "high". pH at 7.7-7.9 which has been factored as on the lowside. Some wording might have been incorrect, but again. English isnt my native language.

I dont think anyone wants to come of as rude, its probably just missinterpetation of one and another.

Back to basic is pretty much what i've been doing according to myself. As previously stated, i've tested two things apart from manual removal during waterchanges and waterchanges itself over a timeperiod of 13 months. Bacteria addetive and just started some light trace dosing.

Regarding stray voltage i've checked and cant seem to find anything faulty. Even replaced certain pumps and whatnot to make sure they werent at fault. They were pretty outdated and lowbudget options at the time.

RO/ID is maintained on a schedule and my apex reminds me. Sediment filter every 3 months, carbon 6 months membrain 12 months and resin about every 6 weeks.

Im about to "soft restart" or what you should call it. 3x 25% waterchanges, fully clean the sump and equipment

Again, appreciate your time and effort. Dont mean to come off butt offensive. Communacational error

 

[Pickle_soup]

For me, it all comes down to the bio-load. I am spitballing here. You have many very active fish that consume a ton of oxygen and require a lot more food. If your skimmer was fine before, now it's not able to handle all that extra waste (btw what skimmer do you have). I am also worried that you will get rid of too much water and dinos will just explode. Here is my plan, what I would do.
1. Do a 25% water change.
2. Deal with dinos first. Microbacter 7 does wonders. Vacuum them out into a sock without removing water from the tank. (2-3 times a week) You can do the same with other algae.
3. Stop any trace elements for the time being.
4. Check out the effectiveness of the skimmer. Maybe invest in a larger one if possible.
5. Add a refugium into the sump with a nice light, and run it 24/7 (chaeto)
6. Add some pods at night to the tank, and to the fuge.
7. If dinos are not a problem anymore, increase your water changes routine, but not exceed 15% changes. Don't change water for the sake of changing water. As you do, measure first. You need to find that balance of NO3 15-20 range.
8. Add an oversized UV sterilizer (if possible) with a flow rate set for algae and bacteria.
9. Try spacing out the powerheads a bit (Polish airforce insignia) pattern to get a bit more flow to the bottom.
10. Run nutrient export mode on your MP40s a bit longer with higher density twice a day (morning/night).
11. I hate this step, but I would consider getting rid of some Tangs, especially the sailfin. It's a monster-size fish.

*some steps can happen simultaneously.

I am sure I am forgetting something, and I will adjust this plan as I go along, but that's the basic outline. I am sure some will disagree with it, but that's my plan. Turning all the water over in a month, IMO, is not the solution. It's putting a band-aid on a tumor. You need to slowly figure out the causes.

 

[m0jjen]

For me, it all comes down to the bio-load. I am spitballing here. You have many very active fish that consume a ton of oxygen and require a lot more food. If your skimmer was fine before, now it's not able to handle all that extra waste (btw what skimmer do you have). I am also worried that you will get rid of too much water and dinos will just explode. Here is my plan, what I would do.
1. Do a 25% water change.
2. Deal with dinos first. Microbacter 7 does wonders. Vacuum them out into a sock without removing water from the tank. (2-3 times a week) You can do the same with other algae.
3. Stop any trace elements for the time being.
4. Check out the effectiveness of the skimmer. Maybe invest in a larger one if possible.
5. Add a refugium into the sump with a nice light, and run it 24/7 (chaeto)
6. Add some pods at night to the tank, and to the fuge.
7. If dinos are not a problem anymore, increase your water changes routine, but not exceed 15% changes. Don't change water for the sake of changing water. As you do, measure first. You need to find that balance of NO3 15-20 range.
8. Add an oversized UV sterilizer (if possible) with a flow rate set for algae and bacteria.
9. Try spacing out the powerheads a bit (Polish airforce insignia) pattern to get a bit more flow to the bottom.
10. Run nutrient export mode on your MP40s a bit longer with higher density twice a day (morning/night).
11. I hate this step, but I would consider getting rid of some Tangs, especially the sailfin. It's a monster-size fish.

*some steps can happen simultaneously.

I am sure I am forgetting something, and I will adjust this plan as I go along, but that's the basic outline. I am sure some will disagree with it, but that's my plan. Turning all the water over in a month, IMO, is not the solution. It's putting a band-aid on a tumor. You need to slowly figure out the causes.

Im not to concerned about the dinos. They are there but not the dominant force. The skimmer is a bubble king mini 200. Should be sufficient if combined with other exports. Contemplating adding a refugium.

Already run a sufficient UV (2x80w deltec)

11. I hate this step, but I would consider getting rid of some Tangs, especially the sailfin. It's a monster-size fish. - this is something i might look into since 4 tangs are "hand me downs". So the scopases might go, no offence to the fish but its not the best looking fish in the bunch.

I know im abit overstocked but i dont wanto just leave the fish to anyone

 

[Pickle_soup]

Im not to concerned about the dinos. They are there but not the dominant force. The skimmer is a bubble king mini 200. Should be sufficient if combined with other exports. Contemplating adding a refugium.

Already run a sufficient UV (2x80w deltec)

11. I hate this step, but I would consider getting rid of some Tangs, especially the sailfin. It's a monster-size fish. - this is something i might look into since 4 tangs are "hand me downs". So the scopases might go, no offence to the fish but its not the best looking fish in the bunch.

I know im abit overstocked but i dont wanto just leave the fish to anyone

Your skimmer is rated 150g for a heavy bioload. I am an over skimmer person. Something that's 2x water volume. Sure corals export things, but they also create waste. As for the dinos, if you drop your PO4 and NO3 they will become a dominant force. I would vacuum out as much as I can.

 

[m0jjen]

Your skimmer is rated 150g for a heavy bioload. I am an over skimmer person. Something that's 2x water volume. Sure corals export things, but they also create waste. As for the dinos, if you drop your PO4 and NO3 they will become a dominant force. I would vacuum out as much as I can.

Im quite the dino collector, had them all at some point I know the skimmer is on its limit. Talked to a bubble king rep and they specify their skimmers for display volume and not total apparently.

Probably wont replace it for many reasons. id rather look into other compliments of filtration which will benefit the system in different ways. First and foremost a refugium, something all my successfull tanks have had

 

[m0jjen]

So its been about a week now and what i've done so far is afew waterchanges. Roughly 15% each, twice last weekened and 15% twice this weekend, cleaned out as much algae and detritus as possible every waterchange. Before waterchanges i go over all the liverock in the display with a turkeybaster and place some filterfloss in a bubbletrap. Cleaned and retuned the skimmer for abit of a wetskim. Cant say if its made a difference since its only been a week, the hairalgae in the fragtank seem to grow abit slower.

Did some messurements today aswell and nitrate and phosphate seem to creep up abit, ~8 ppm no3 and 0.08 po4. Since hairalgae isnt taking care of nutrients i guess they go out into the water and stay there instead.

 

[m0jjen]

Update for anyone reading this thread in the future. Situation is alot better but not over. What has been done is pretty much 4 things.

- Up regular maintainance such as equipment cleaning and thing you should regulary do
- Keept dosing trace elements at a semi moderate amount, im about to bump it up abit. 3/5 recommended dose atm
- Dubbled waterchanges for 3 weeks and with these waterchanges and went all in on algae removal
- Moderate carbon dosing, 2/5 rekommended dose. Will probably go to about half recommended dose soon.

Things are starting to coloring up, some things have come back from almost dead and coraline exploded

 

[jimk60]

Happy to see your having some success. What are you carbon dosing with?

 

[m0jjen]

Happy to see your having some success. What are you carbon dosing with?

Doser, Aquaforest NP-pro . Figured a solution which is easy to regulate would be the best option.