Chaeto and phosphates

[reefpatrique]

75g with 20g sump. Going through fallow period at the moment but with following inverts: 4 tiger pistols, 2 cleaners, 1 peppermint, in addition, to one dozen plus cerith snails. Refugium has 2 focused grow lights: 18W ChaetoMax light from Auqa Gadgets and an 18W PAR35 from Luxbird. Lights are on 15hr per day. Both are attuned to the correct spectrums for chaeto growth. And, indeed, chaeto is massive: over a couple weeks grows twofold. Nitrates are between 5 and 10 ppm. Quandary is this: despite rapid chaeto growth, phosphates remain between 0.25 and 0.50 ppm; trying to figure out how reduce to non-GHA growth levels. Should I just get a more powerful light (i.e., 90W), or is this a lost cause for using chaeto to control phosphates?

 

[laverda]

In crease your light schedule a couple more hours a day.

 

[DeniableArc]

What are you testing phosphates with? I believe chaeto tends to use nitrate over phosphates, most run a small amount of gfo in a reactor.

 

[reefpatrique]

What are you testing phosphates with? I believe chaeto tends to use nitrate over phosphates, most run a small amount of gfo in a reactor.

Testing with API kit

 

[Lasse]

I would suggest to validate both NO3 and PO3 with another method

Sincerely Lasse

 

[reefpatrique]

I would suggest to validate both NO3 and PO3 with another method

Sincerely Lasse

Any favs?

 

[glendale789]

@reefpatrique how long has the fuge been up and running? I had the same problem - as @DeniableArc mentioned - in that chaeto seems to take up nitrate more. You could also have a phosphate sink. I ran SeaChem Phosguard for a few months to get my phosphates down to 0.10 (Hanna Phosphate ULR checker), then the chaeto seemed to keep it in check.

 

[Lasse]

Any favs?

Yes - would be (Hanna Phosphate LR checker) I use the phosphate ULR checker at home and the LR checker at job - IMO the LR is more consistent. Nitrate - for the moment I use Tropic Marine PRO nitrite/nitrate test (there is two models TM nitrite/nitrate and TM PRO nitrite/nitrate - the later one is more reliable IMO) The reason why nitrite/nitrate testing - se here

Many macro algae have a higher N/P ratio compared with many other organisms. Up to 80-100/1. Marine phytoplankton have 16/1. I do not know the exactly ratio for chaeto but it should be relative high I think. Your observations seems to be right

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Subsea]

Yes - would be (Hanna Phosphate LR checker) I use the phosphate ULR checker at home and the LR checker at job - IMO the LR is more consistent. Nitrate - for the moment I use Tropic Marine PRO nitrite/nitrate test (there is two models TM nitrite/nitrate and TM PRO nitrite/nitrate - the later one is more reliable IMO) The reason why nitrite/nitrate testing - se here

Many macro algae have a higher N/P ratio compared with many other organisms. Up to 80-100/1. Marine phytoplankton have 16/1. I do not know the exactly ratio for chaeto but it should be relative high I think. Your observations seems to be right

Sincerely Lasse

Plant Analysis - Ward Laboratories, Inc.

www.wardlab.com

Dry analysis of chaeto ratio of N at 30:1 in my systems.
Dry analysis of Gracilaria Parvispora had a N ratio of 35:1.
Dry analysis of Calurpa Prolifera at 60:1

 

[schuby]

As already brought up, if you used dry rock in your tank, it may be your main source of phosphate. It will leach out of the rock into the water when the level of phosphate in the water is less than that in the rock. This can take a long time. Chaeto isn't the tool to use to remove the large amount of phosphate that can be bound to your rock. I had to use a GFO reactor (rowaphos) for several months to get my phosphate level down to where chaeto could maintain it, due to starting my tank with all dry rock. Others use Lanthanum Chloride.

No matter what you do, don't let your phosphate or nitrate level go to zero. Bad things can happen to your tank.

 

[Lasse]

Thanks for that info - now we have some figures of N/P ratio among the more popular macroalgae for refugium. Do you have the total content of Chaeto and want to share them?

As already brought up, if you used dry rock in your tank, it may be your main source of phosphate. It will leach out of the rock into the water when the level of phosphate in the water is less than that in the rock. This can take a long time. Chaeto isn't the tool to use to remove the large amount of phosphate that can be bound to your rock. I had to use a GFO reactor (rowaphos) for several months to get my phosphate level down to where chaeto could maintain it, due to starting my tank with all dry rock. Others use Lanthanum Chloride.

No matter what you do, don't let your phosphate or nitrate level go to zero. Bad things can happen to your tank.

I have nearly the opposite experiences with Marco Rocks. Had to dose during a long time before getting readable PO4 figures

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Subsea]

75g with 20g sump. Going through fallow period at the moment but with following inverts: 4 tiger pistols, 2 cleaners, 1 peppermint, in addition, to one dozen plus cerith snails. Refugium has 2 focused grow lights: 18W ChaetoMax light from Auqa Gadgets and an 18W PAR35 from Luxbird. Lights are on 15hr per day. Both are attuned to the correct spectrums for chaeto growth. And, indeed, chaeto is massive: over a couple weeks grows twofold. Nitrates are between 5 and 10 ppm. Quandary is this: despite rapid chaeto growth, phosphates remain between 0.25 and 0.50 ppm; trying to figure out how reduce to non-GHA growth levels. Should I just get a more powerful light (i.e., 90W), or is this a lost cause for using chaeto to control phosphates?

I personally don’t think those phosphate numbers are absolutely detrimental. It depends on your system. If you want to decrease phosphate numbers, increase photoperiod or photo intensity and export more Chaeto. If nitrogen drops, you may find it necessary to dose nitrogen & iron to maintain macro growth rate.

 

[Subsea]

@Lasse
I was extremely surprised with the copper & zinc numbers. Ground water was tested to the ppb with no zinc or copper detected.

test were done 6 years ago. I could only find the paper record for Gracilaria Parvispora/Red Ogo

N%. 2.59
P%. 0.082
K% 13.54
Ca%. 0.555
Mg% 1.163
S%. 4.81
Zn ppm at 139
Fe ppm at 107
Mn ppm at 20
Cu ppm at 7

 

[Lasse]

Very interesting - now I understand why my K decline during time with high rate of Chaeto growth. Zn, Fe and Mn is important for photosynthesis, Cu can be both good and bad.

Thank you

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Subsea]

When I was setting up commercial production to sell Red Ogo to Asian restaurants, I dosed high levels of potassium to balance ratios. Not sure that it was necessary.

 

[Subsea]

Very interesting - now I understand why my K decline during time with high rate of Chaeto growth. Zn, Fe and Mn is important for photosynthesis, Cu can be both good and bad.

Thank you

Sincerely Lasse

trace minerals are extremely important as catalyst for many biochemical reactions. Some years back, I moved onto an old farm with 100 year old pecan trees that were sparse pecan producers. I added 1 pound of chelated zinc to one acres. One acre of land one inch deep weighs 1,000,000 pounds. So with 1 ppm of zinc, that Fall, I broke branches on trees loaded with pecans.

 

[laverda]

Plant Analysis - Ward Laboratories, Inc.

www.wardlab.com

Dry analysis of chaeto ratio of N at 30:1 in my systems.
Dry analysis of Gracilaria Parvispora had a N ratio of 35:1.
Dry analysis of Calurpa Prolifera at 60:1

I wonder what hair algae consumes. I grow a lot in my ATS.

 

[Subsea]

I wonder what hair algae consumes. I grow a lot in my ATS.

PLANT ANALYSIS

P-2	ROUTINE	$25.00
	Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfur, Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper, Boron, Molybdenum

P-205	P-2 + TOTAL CARBON	$32.75

p-212	P-2 MINUS NITROGEN	$17.25

P-3	SUPER COMPLETE	$32.75
	Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfur, Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper, Molybdenum, Boron, Chloride

P-4 HOUSEHOLD & COMMERCIAL WATER ANALYSIS W-5 HOUSEHOLD COMPLETE MINERAL TEST $27.25 Bicarbonate, Calcium, Carbonate, Chloride, Fluoride, Iron, Magnesium, Nitrate, Potassium, Sodium, Sulfate, Total Hardness (Lime), Total Alkalinity, Electrical Conductivity, pH, Est. Total Dissolved Solids For an additional fee, you can order a convenient kit that includes the Household Complete Mineral Test, prepaid postage, a clean sample bottle, and necessary packaging. To order the kit, click here. I wonder what hair algae consumes. I grow a lot in my ATS.

 

[laverda]

PLANT ANALYSIS

P-2	ROUTINE	$25.00
	Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfur, Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper, Boron, Molybdenum

P-205	P-2 + TOTAL CARBON	$32.75

p-212	P-2 MINUS NITROGEN	$17.25

P-3	SUPER COMPLETE	$32.75
	Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfur, Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper, Molybdenum, Boron, Chloride

P-4 HOUSEHOLD & COMMERCIAL WATER ANALYSIS W-5 HOUSEHOLD COMPLETE MINERAL TEST $27.25 Bicarbonate, Calcium, Carbonate, Chloride, Fluoride, Iron, Magnesium, Nitrate, Potassium, Sodium, Sulfate, Total Hardness (Lime), Total Alkalinity, Electrical Conductivity, pH, Est. Total Dissolved Solids For an additional fee, you can order a convenient kit that includes the Household Complete Mineral Test, prepaid postage, a clean sample bottle, and necessary packaging. To order the kit, click here.

Not sure I understand. Is that how much it would cost to get some GHA analyzed? $32.75.

 

[Subsea]

@laverda

Plant analysis would cost $25. When I grew Gracilaria Parvispora for sale to oriental restaurants, I used plant analysis as “quality assurance”. Perhaps @AlgaeBarn would do that for their macro.