Cloudy Water, Bacteria Bloom?

[Skep18]

If it was caused by stirring your sand bed, wouldn't the gyre flow creating bare spots have shown an earlier indication?

I'm just hoping some answers can be found in the process, not just in terms of how to make it go away. I just finished my final equipment list, and a UV filter was not included. I'm really hoping I don't have to reevaluate here. My understanding was that UVs were optional, almost overkill for most. But here in this thread, it looks like the fix to a whole host of problems of uncertain origin. WHY ARE THERE NO EASY ANSWERS IN REEFING?!

I can only speculate but its my thought that it was a combination of things maybe. First, despite my minimal stocking of fish with the dirty tangs only being in there for maybe a month now, I figured my sand bed couldn't be that laden with nutrients this short into the build. With that in mind, I thought stirring up some of the bed as regular maintenance wouldn't be a big deal. You're right, the gyre keeps the bed moving in many areas but only a little at a time. But I think it was the addition of my first time scraping the back glass that I may have released a lot of bacteria into the water column to begin feeding on that sand bed nutrient release. I'm probably wrong but the only thing I noticed was this happened when I did both of those things at once.

That said, I'm pretty confident in saying this bloom is not really a tank health issue in terms of putting your livestock at risk. I think if encountered, make an extra effort to aerate and do NOT do water changes outside of your regular schedule as to feed the bloom, assuming the bloom is not being fed by a dead fish or something. But my coral seemed fine. The presumably reduced PAR, even if it goes on for a month, shouldn't hurt them. Some speculate the coral might feed on the bacteria. In looking at my skimmer, if any of that stuff makes it to the coral, I would think they would consume it. To assist in aeration I aimed a box fan at my sump and added an air stone. I figured my monitoring of my pH was a good indicator of oxygen levels as pH correlates to CO2 levels in the water. The less CO2 should correlate some with more oxygen, at least in terms of monitoring it relative to previous levels when implementing aeration or something. I did notice before aeration I did get a slight drop in pH. The fan helped more than the air pump.

All this to say I don't think you need to implement UV if its not in the budget plan. In lieu you could just ride it out.

 

[Punchanello]

If it was caused by stirring your sand bed, wouldn't the gyre flow creating bare spots have shown an earlier indication?

I'm just hoping some answers can be found in the process, not just in terms of how to make it go away. I just finished my final equipment list, and a UV filter was not included. I'm really hoping I don't have to reevaluate here. My understanding was that UVs were optional, almost overkill for most. But here in this thread, it looks like the fix to a whole host of problems of uncertain origin. WHY ARE THERE NO EASY ANSWERS IN REEFING?!

UV wasn't on my list either. Some people use UV to control ich but they need to be high watt, high quality and large.

For water clarity issues related to waterborne bacteria, algae and in some cases dinos a small, cheap, low watt UV sterilizer is enough.

Not everyone has this issue. My LFS guy was shocked at how bad mine was and put it down to dumb luck. In fact, so much of the advice I got was way off because not that many reefers get really bad water clarity issues that can't be dealt with by controlling nutrients, skimming or carbon.

 

[Skep18]

My LFS guy was shocked at how bad mine was and put it down to dumb luck.

Based on the lack of documentation and insight into this across the various forums, I came to the same conclusion. Idk if there's a specific formula that will yield these results. Just kinda happens sometimes I guess. And it doesn't appear to be too big of a deal outside of being a huge eyesore.

 

[00Barracuda00]

That said, I'm pretty confident in saying this bloom is not really a tank health issue in terms of putting your livestock at risk. I think if encountered, make an extra effort to aerate and do NOT do water changes outside of your regular schedule as to feed the bloom, assuming the bloom is not being fed by a dead fish or something.

All this to say I don't think you need to implement UV if its not in the budget plan. In lieu you could just ride it out.

Can you explain that in greater detail? My knee jerk reaction would have been to start a massive water change, either all at once or spread out over several days. But ultimately that's the first step I'd take if I thought it was silt or something suspended in the water column that I couldn't understand.

You're saying that since it's potentially a bacertia/algae bloom, this could have made things worse?

Your thread is messing with my head. I JUST thought I got a handle on these things and felt confident enough to start putting things together. Now I feel uncertain again.

 

[Skep18]

Can you explain that in greater detail? My knee jerk reaction would have been to start a massive water change, either all at once or spread out over several days. But ultimately that's the first step I'd take if I thought it was silt or something suspended in the water column that I couldn't understand.

You're saying that since it's potentially a bacertia/algae bloom, this could have made things worse?

Your thread is messing with my head. I JUST thought I got a handle on these things and felt confident enough to start putting things together. Now I feel uncertain again.

Based one other threads I've seen and my short experience, it seems doing anything in an attempt to correct the issue might just prolong it. As others written, the "good" nitrifying bacteria which lives on surfaces inside the tank/sump are best as turning ammonia into its more harmless byproducts. The "bad" nitrifying bacteria live in the water column and are not nearly as efficient at converting ammonia. In a bacteria bloom the tank is caught in a battle of "good" bacteria vs "bad" bacteria. By letting the column sit you allow that process to take its course. Eventually the bacteria die off and are skimmed out while the "good" bacteria gain in numbers or whatever, and are the dominant bacteria remaining.

During the bloom, I'd speculate the "bad" bacteria reach a saturation point based on the nutrients available in the column and the water available. By doing a water change, you dilute the column allowing more water to be available for the bacteria to multiply and occupy. Idk if the newly split bacteria has a new lifespan or not but others have stated after doing large water changes, the bloom is back in a matter of days. That sounds like new, more viable bacteria has been formed.

Also a WC could add new nutrients from the salt mix to further feed the "bad" bacteria and further prolong the bloom.

I figure just letting the bacteria in the column die out and not giving them any more water to occupy or nutrients to consume, eventually the system settles into equilibrium with nutrients and bacterial consumers until all that remains is the "good" bacteria.

Either way, most of the time I've read people stating that EVENTUALLY the water will clear on its own. For us impatient people, UV could be a solution.

 

[00Barracuda00]

Based one other threads I've seen and my short experience, it seems doing anything in an attempt to correct the issue might just prolong it. As others written, the "good" nitrifying bacteria which lives on surfaces inside the tank/sump are best as turning ammonia into its more harmless byproducts. The "bad" nitrifying bacteria live in the water column and are not nearly as efficient at converting ammonia. In a bacteria bloom the tank is caught in a battle of "good" bacteria vs "bad" bacteria. By letting the column sit you allow that process to take its course. Eventually the bacteria die off and are skimmed out while the "good" bacteria gain in numbers or whatever, and are the dominant bacteria remaining.

During the bloom, I'd speculate the "bad" bacteria reach a saturation point based on the nutrients available in the column and the water available. By doing a water change, you dilute the column allowing more water to be available for the bacteria to multiply and occupy. Idk if the newly split bacteria has a new lifespan or not but others have stated after doing large water changes, the bloom is back in a matter of days. That sounds like new, more viable bacteria has been formed.

Also a WC could add new nutrients from the salt mix to further feed the "bad" bacteria and further prolong the bloom.

I figure just letting the bacteria in the column die out and not giving them any more water to occupy or nutrients to consume, eventually the system settles into equilibrium with nutrients and bacterial consumers until all that remains is the "good" bacteria.

Either way, most of the time I've read people stating that EVENTUALLY the water will clear on its own. For us impatient people, UV could be a solution.

I hear what you're saying, but I don't understand the conclusion. If the 'bad' bacteria are suspended in the water column, wouldn't removing them (along with the water) improve the fighting chances of the 'good' bacteria?

I mean, let's say I started a 30% water change every 2 days once things got so cloudy I couldn't stand it. Are we saying I could expect things to be worse, or that it would just come back eventually?

 

[Skep18]

I hear what you're saying, but I don't understand the conclusion. If the 'bad' bacteria are suspended in the water column, wouldn't removing them (along with the water) improve the fighting chances of the 'good' bacteria?

I mean, let's say I started a 30% water change every 2 days once things got so cloudy I couldn't stand it. Are we saying I could expect things to be worse, or that it would just come back eventually?

A WC schedule that aggressive, Idk. I have a 225gal display so doing that isn't really practical for me nor cheaper than getting UV.

That said, blow is a video of a guy that did 50% - 75% WC every other day and still had the cloudiness come back. He fixed it with a cheap UV.



All in all, I admit my speculations are far from flawless. I'm just trying to make sense with what I'm seeing and others have documented as their experiences.

 

[Skep18]

Installations are never fast...

 

[Skep18]

Well I hooked up the UV. Definitely makes a very noticeable difference rather quickly.

Approximately 1:30pm when I finished plumbing it in:

Roughly 3hr later at 4:30 running it at around 250gph:

To get this in I had to finally commit and build the accessory manifold off my return plumbing:

Put in a gate valve between the ball valve and the sterilizer so I can turn the feed on/off without effecting the flow rate with the ball valve. I figured placing it before the UV would reduce the water pressure in the unit thus being inherently less likely to leak (not that I thought it would). Also, I've not thought about it much, but it seems the less line you have restricted pressure in, the less total energy loss you'll have in the system. In theory this just makes things easier on the pump, i.e. run less amps per unit flow:

Of course the Pentair 40W UV Sterilizer on a quick little stand made of oak, the same material the final cabinetry will be made of. Just some rough tube plumbing directly into the tank as to not recycle the UV-filtered water back into the sump:

And a little FTS of the setup:

 

[Skep18]

Wow, that's amazing. The tank is like looking through air. I only recall it being this clear the week I filled it. That's 100% worth the price of admission. Now I have to redo all my PAR measurements... Lol.

 

[Skep18]

Dim photo of the tank with early morning, low blues on.

 

[DudeBruh]

Don’t know if someone had asked but what kind of substrate was originally used?

 

[Skep18]

Don’t know if someone had asked but what kind of substrate was originally used?

Carib Sea Special Grade Aragonite. Dead sand. Fully rinsed until water ran clear.

 

[Dan_P]

What about a chemical precipitate, e.g., calcium carbonate? If you acifified a sample of water with acetic acid does it become clearer?

 

[Skep18]

What about a chemical precipitate, e.g., calcium carbonate? If you acifified a sample of water with acetic acid does it become clearer?

Good question. Unfortunately the water is clear now so I can't test that. However based on the dramatic results from UV I'd be inclined to say the cloudiness was due to some living organism as anything strictly chemical in nature I don't think would respond to UV.

 

[Skep18]

Daytime shot of clarity.