Clowns trying to host in Hammer Coral, Should I discourage?

[Glasswalker]

Hey, so looking for a bit of input/suggestions on this one.

We have a bonded pair of True Percula Clowns. And we've got a BTA for them to host in, it's about 3-4" diameter fully open. But it's on a Rock we can't/won't add to our DT... So right now it's in a seperate tank... In the meantime the Clowns have decided to try and host in our Hammer, while we try to get the BTA off it's rock... We are concerned for the hammer as it's clearly not "happy" with this treatment...

Anyway, the BTA is on a rock that won't fit in our current DT, So we put it in QT, but while in QT, an infected fish died, and we had to remove the BTA to treat the tank (Kanaplex not safe for BTA). Anyway, so now the BTA is in a small hospital tank, and I couldn't treat the rock, so it could carry the infection, so even if I could find "room" for it, I don't want to put it in the DT...

So we've been trying a few methods to coax the BTA off the rock... But he's VERY stubborn... The current method we're using is we've blacked out most of the tank, put light only on one end, and the rock on the far end and trying to get him to come to the light (about a 10" reach to get into the light for him, so hopefully that will coax him off, been about 24h so far and he's still being stubborn).

Anyway, a bit off track... So in the meantime, the clowns have decided they want to host in my Hammer Coral... It's clearly irritating the Coral, it's retracting quite a bit, and not opening up very much... Also the Hammer is in a spot which is near the cave that my Firefish lives in, and he's very skittish. So when the clowns come marching over to the hammer, the firefish hides in his hole, and never comes out, sometimes even missing feedings...

Now the clowns aren't always at the hammer, only about once/twice a day they come over and "play" in it... But they sleep on the opposite end of the tank, and still spend most of their time either in that corner, or grazing the rocks for pods...

So we were thinking we should discourage them from hosting in the hammer, until we can free up the BTA, and they can hopefully then host in that...

But I was concerned would discouraging them from going near the hammer be detrimental to them in any way? (basically we use the long feeding tube we use for target feeding and "shoo" them away, never touching them, but it scares them away)

Or should we just let them do their thing, possibly to the detriment of the Hammer?

Anyway, thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[Palerider]

The coral should get used to them. I say let them play.

 

[dbl]

Try this to get the BTA off the rock, especially since you have it isolated at the moment:

Pull up a chair (because it can take some time) and hold the rock the BTA is attached to upside down and out of the water. The tips of the BTA itself should be right at the water level. It will eventually let go of the rock. If you can find a way to "prop" the rock up in the correct position, you obviously wouldn't have to sit there with it. This method worked on two out of three BTA's I just tore a tank apart to remove.

As to the hammer, if it's large enough it will probably be okay and "get used" to its new residents. You just have to watch it if it's on the small side so the clowns don't love it to poor health.

My $.02

 

[SantaMonicaHelp]

It's not too uncommon for Clownfish to live and play around in Hammer coral. I say, let it be. No harm can come of it as far as I'm aware. Although I'm interested to see what would happen when you
re-introduce the BTA.

- C. Smith

 

[aaronn]

I have a pair of clowns that have lived in a hammer coral for years. The only problem is I don't see the clowns very often. The hammer is large enough that they spend most of their time under the heads of the hammer

 

[tomtom2245]

So I'm going to go opposite of everyone here and say worst case is they could kill the hammer. I have had clowns love one to death. You could try and move it to a different location in the tank and if that doesn't work, your only real bet is to take it out, take the clowns out, or add the BTA and hope they go for it instead. Granted this is all if the hammer does not accept them, which it sounds like is the case.

As for the BTA, you can try hanging it upside down and then using an ice cube sporadically on the foot.

 

[gar732]

As for the BTA, you can try hanging it upside down and then using an ice cube sporadically on the foot.

Exactly what I was going to suggest. I also agree that they can end up damaging the coral if they start nesting a little too agressively. I have a pair of clowns that have decided to lay on an elegance and the tissue has receded because of their nesting behavior. The elegance is massive so it still looks healthy but if it gets any worse I'll have to change things up on them. I wouldn't be surprised if you end up losing a head or two, but then again it could all work out just fine. Just keep a close eye on them.

 

[Glasswalker]

Try this to get the BTA off the rock, especially since you have it isolated at the moment:

Pull up a chair (because it can take some time) and hold the rock the BTA is attached to upside down and out of the water. The tips of the BTA itself should be right at the water level. It will eventually let go of the rock. If you can find a way to "prop" the rock up in the correct position, you obviously wouldn't have to sit there with it. This method worked on two out of three BTA's I just tore a tank apart to remove.

As to the hammer, if it's large enough it will probably be okay and "get used" to its new residents. You just have to watch it if it's on the small side so the clowns don't love it to poor health.

My $.02

So I'm going to go opposite of everyone here and say worst case is they could kill the hammer. I have had clowns love one to death. You could try and move it to a different location in the tank and if that doesn't work, your only real bet is to take it out, take the clowns out, or add the BTA and hope they go for it instead. Granted this is all if the hammer does not accept them, which it sounds like is the case.

As for the BTA, you can try hanging it upside down and then using an ice cube sporadically on the foot.

Exactly what I was going to suggest. I also agree that they can end up damaging the coral if they start nesting a little too agressively. I have a pair of clowns that have decided to lay on an elegance and the tissue has receded because of their nesting behavior. The elegance is massive so it still looks healthy but if it gets any worse I'll have to change things up on them. I wouldn't be surprised if you end up losing a head or two, but then again it could all work out just fine. Just keep a close eye on them.

How long would you guys dangle him for? Ie how long before I decide if it's working or not? (Don't want to dangle him and kill him)

 

[Glasswalker]

Just wanted to say the trick for the BTA worked like a charm!

Dangled the rock upside down so just the tip of him was in the water, he stretched out to keep in the water, every 2-3 min I inched it up again. Eventually he was closed up in a ball, but his foot was stretched like 3" to keep the ball submerged.

Eventually his foot let go, and I was able to get him acclimated and into my display tank. No obvious damage to the BTA but probably some stress. (FYI total process took prob 45min)

Will post a pic or two once he is recovered

Thanks!

 

[dbl]

...FYI total process took prob 45min...

Hence why pulling up a chair was the first thing I mentioned...lol!

 

[ReefTalk]

Defently no , that looks cool

 

[Glasswalker]

Just a quick update to this, Noticed that the male clown was "nibbling" on the hammer polyps. He wasn't "biting" them, just sticking them in his mouth.

Following this behavior for the past couple days the male clown has been acting very lethargic. He's also swimming around with his mouth open all the time (not gasping at all, he's holding it open it seems). After a while away from the hammer, he will slowly close it.

In addition his appetite appears reduced (he's still eating, but shows far less interest in food). He's also swimming up to the surface and sticking his mouth above water...

This led me to do a few more searches (specifically for lethargic clowns with mouth open) and I found several examples of clowns being stung by coral (including hammer). As is indicated in this thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2081588

Any thoughts/suggestions?
@Humblefish or #reefsquad

By the way, the BTA is in the DT, and actually within 24h of adding to the display, he split into 3! So I've got 3 little BTAs now, all fairly small... My Porcelain Crab immediately went and hosted with one of them. All 3 are quite small. They haven't moved very far apart yet, so I don't think the clowns will notice them right away. (the largest one is now about 1" diameter or so, the smaller ones are like 1/2" diameter, before splitting when fully extended it was about 3" - 4" diameter) All 3 do look healthy, with tentacles extended, and nice coloration and bubble tips.

 

[Humblefish]

By "nibbling" on the hammer he's probably getting stung and possibly ingesting something not too good for him.

It sounds like you may need to separate the not-to-bright clownfish from the coral.

 

[tomtom2245]

I agree, I think the coral or clown may need to be moved. The clown "nibbling" on the hammer is most likely it attempting to build up a tolerance to its sting. Some times when they are moving into a new host, they will rub all over it and put various parts of it in their mouths to build up a protective coating on themselves. This is normal behavior but it sounds like your clown is having a hard time adjusting to it.

 

[madweazl]

Clowns will often suck on the tips of a BTA (pretty sure all of mine have); I dont have an explanation for the behavior but they seem to enjoy it. As for the clowns in corals, I had one eventually a nice green bubble coral. The coral would close up a bit while the clown was in it. Over the course of roughly a month it just continued to go down hill. Tried to catch the clown many times but never could. Obviously there are some success stories but better safe than sorry.

 

[Katrina71]

I got a hammer coral this weekend to try and grow to host an OC clown. I didn't want an anemone with a 9 year old. Now I'm concerned with some things I have read. I was assured at the lfs the hammer would be safe for kids and fish. We have a Tailspot Blenny. Is this safe for him too? I'm new and ignorant.

 

[Humblefish]

I was assured at the lfs the hammer would be safe for kids and fish. We have a Tailspot Blenny. Is this safe for him too? I'm new and ignorant.

All euphyllia are "stinging corals". Most fish know to avoid them (except clownfish which sometimes use them as a host), and for most humans their sting is mild. But some people can be hyper-sensitive to the stings of euphyllia and anemones, etc.

 

[Katrina71]

All euphyllia are "stinging corals". Most fish know to avoid them (except clownfish which sometimes use them as a host), and for most humans their sting is mild. But some people can be hyper-sensitive to the stings of euphyllia and anemones, etc.

is it safe for a clownfish?

 

[Glasswalker]

It should be fine for the clown, mine recovered after a few days. (they have now hosted with my RBTA instead). If anything, I think the clowns were "loving the hammer to death", as it wasn't quite big enough for them.

I wouldn't be worried, the fish seem to know to avoid them, and the clowns may try to host, but are highly resistant to the sting. The behavior I saw with mine "sucking" on the tentacles is apparently normal behavior, and how they attempt to acclimate themselves to a sting. For a couple days the smaller male clown had a droopy mouth, and he recovered fine once he got used to it.

I've never been stung by the hammer myself when handling it.

 

[FlyinBryan]

Clowns won't go where they'll have problems. Mine have hosted in weird corals as well. If not..natural selection has run its course