Cost comparison: 2 part vs all for reef

[LobsterOfJustice]

I’m trying to understand how the cost of all for reef would compare to my current 2-part consumption. My current 2 part recipe is:

One entire bucket of this CaCl dissolved in enough water to make 4 gallons of final solution. I am dosing 130 mL of this daily. Earthborn Elements Calcium Chloride (1 Gallon), Wine & Cheese Making, Food Additive & Preservative https://a.co/d/3KqwGY2

13 cups of Arm & Hammer baking soda, baked at 350 for 4 hours, then dissolved in enough water to make 4 gallons of final solution. I am dosing 147.5 mL of this daily.

I’m trying to understand how my current 2 part consumption would translate to all for reef (ie how much all for reef would I dose daily to equate current 2 part), so I can compare cost to understand if they are even in the same ballpark. The info for all for reef is:

Specifications (per 1,000 mL of mixed solution)

• Carbonate Hardness Concentration:6,000 dKH
• Calcium Concentration: 43,000 mg Ca

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

How much are your ingredients costing you per month to make your 2 part?

I'm not an all for reef expert, but I've noticed that the levels build over the next few days when you dose. My system also seems to consume Alk a bit less rapidly with AFR. I would assume that's because of the reaction over time.

I bought the largest container of AFR powder and I would imagine that would last you a while. If you have heavy consumption, you might use 2L if solution per month. Takes 6 scoops per liter. There are hundreds of scoops in that container.

I'm sure someone else will give you a more accurate answer. Just giving my limited experience with AFR.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

All for Reef potency is 1.15 times the potency of my DIY Recipe #1.

You are making a DIY two part recipe that is about 1.44 times as potent as my recipe (for the alk part) or 1.59 times the potency for the calcium part.

Thus, your two part recipe is about 1.24 times as potent as AFR (based on the alk part). (one gallon of both parts of your two part = 1.24 gallons of AFR.

However, your demand may rise if the pH rises.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

How much are your ingredients costing you per month to make your 2 part?

I'm not an all for reef expert, but I've noticed that the levels build over the next few days when you dose. My system also seems to consume Alk a bit less rapidly with AFR. I would assume that's because of the reaction over time.

I bought the largest container of AFR powder and I would imagine that would last you a while. If you have heavy consumption, you might use 2L if solution per month. Takes 6 scoops per liter. There are hundreds of scoops in that container.

I'm sure someone else will give you a more accurate answer. Just giving my limited experience with AFR.

Based on my numbers combined with Randy’s it looks like I would use around 5 or 5.5 L per month. I have a big tank full of big acros. At a cost of $7.50/L AFR would cost me around $40 per month. I think my current 2-part is costing me about $8.95 per month.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Based on my numbers combined with Randy’s it looks like I would use around 5 or 5.5 L per month. I have a big tank full of big acros. At a cost of $7.50/L AFR would cost me around $40 per month. I think my current 2-part is costing me about $8.95 per month.

Ok, good to know. Here's the other benefit of AFR especially important to Acropora. It contains many, if not all, if the major/minor trace elements that Acropora need.

If you're dosing trace elements separately, then it isn't a big deal. However, you could use AFR and figure that you could cut that trace elements budget as well.

I just started using AFR in the past few months. It was a bit of a curve to get the dosage correct, but after a few weeks everything stabilizes and it's fantastic.

Would love to see pics of your tank if you have them. I'm a Acropora nut too and my tank is full as well. There's no doubt my Acros love AFR. Everything looks great.

There may be a point that AFR can't keep up depending on the size of your system and the intake of the Acros. I would think that would be a VERY large system though. Most likely a commercial farm.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok, good to know. Here's the other benefit of AFR especially important to Acropora. It contains many, if not all, if the major/minor trace elements that Acropora need.

If you're dosing trace elements separately, then it isn't a big deal. However, you could use AFR and figure that you could cut that trace elements budget as well.

I just started using AFR in the past few months. It was a bit of a curve to get the dosage correct, but after a few weeks everything stabilizes and it's fantastic.

Would love to see pics of your tank if you have them. I'm a Acropora nut too and my tank is full as well. There's no doubt my Acros love AFR. Everything looks great.

There may be a point that AFR can't keep up depending on the size of your system and the intake of the Acros. I would think that would be a VERY large system though. Most likely a commercial farm.

My concern is the idea of tying trace element addition to calcification. A mostly soft coral tank, for example, may use as much or more trace elements as a hard coral tank, with less demand for alk and calcium.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

My concern is the idea of tying trace element addition to calcification. A mostly soft coral tank, for example, may use as much or more trace elements as a hard coral tank, with less demand for alk and calcium.

That's an interesting concern @Randy Holmes-Farley

I agree on the soft coral application. So in the case of soft corals, it would be better to just dose 2 part as needed and trace elements separately. I was strictly speaking of a full Acropora system that definitely uses all of the elements. Great input and always like to hear other ideas for sure.

Can you extrapolate your concerns and possible research? Really interested in hearing what you have to say on AFR and it's applications.

Thanks

 

[gbroadbridge]

I’m trying to understand how the cost of all for reef would compare to my current 2-part consumption. My current 2 part recipe is:

One entire bucket of this CaCl dissolved in enough water to make 4 gallons of final solution. I am dosing 130 mL of this daily. Earthborn Elements Calcium Chloride (1 Gallon), Wine & Cheese Making, Food Additive & Preservative https://a.co/d/3KqwGY2

13 cups of Arm & Hammer baking soda, baked at 350 for 4 hours, then dissolved in enough water to make 4 gallons of final solution. I am dosing 147.5 mL of this daily.

I’m trying to understand how my current 2 part consumption would translate to all for reef (ie how much all for reef would I dose daily to equate current 2 part), so I can compare cost to understand if they are even in the same ballpark. The info for all for reef is:

I did the numbers for myself and at least in this part of the world AFR works out much more expensive per litre.

However, I still use it for one tank where convenience is more important than cost.
I have a 50 litre nano mixed reef, where the overhead of mixing up 3 part, adding traces, and having to run a 3 head doser is just not worth the extra work and complexity.

Obviously a single dosing head dosing around 5-6ml a day can't be beaten in that use case.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Ok, good to know. Here's the other benefit of AFR especially important to Acropora. It contains many, if not all, if the major/minor trace elements that Acropora need.

If you're dosing trace elements separately, then it isn't a big deal. However, you could use AFR and figure that you could cut that trace elements budget as well.

I just started using AFR in the past few months. It was a bit of a curve to get the dosage correct, but after a few weeks everything stabilizes and it's fantastic.

Would love to see pics of your tank if you have them. I'm a Acropora nut too and my tank is full as well. There's no doubt my Acros love AFR. Everything looks great.

There may be a point that AFR can't keep up depending on the size of your system and the intake of the Acros. I would think that would be a VERY large system though. Most likely a commercial farm.

Here are some pics (tank viewed from both sides). I don’t test or dose any trace elements and the acros don’t seem to mind lol (but I do perform regular partial water changes). I just add CaCl and baked baking soda. And maybe twice a year need to add some MgCl.

 

[homer1475]

Baking soda, and peladow cost me about $5 a month where I'm dosing roughly 2 gallons a month. Small weekly WC's is how I keep up with trace elements. I have never believed in those potions(trace elements) in the last 20 years, and don't worry about them now.

 

[spsick]

@Randy Holmes-Farley bumping this for your math.

You say your 2 part recipe #1 alk makes 5,300dkh/gal.

All-for-Reef says it makes 6,000dkh per LITER.

Wouldn‘t that make it over 4x the potency? Trying to calculate an accurate cost comparison for my tank. I’m currently dosing about 65ml/day of your 2 part (BRS) per day with the addition of 130ml/day Tropic Marin part C and adding 100ml of A and K to each gal on 2 part.

My math is :
58 days/gal @65ml/day

Alk- $6.66/gal +$5 K
Cal- $6.66/gal + $5 A
C- $1.80/gal (130ml/day)

Alk- $6.03/month
Ca- $6.03/month
C- $1.80/month

$13.86/month total

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley bumping this for your math.

You say your 2 part recipe #1 alk makes 5,300dkh/gal.

All-for-Reef says it makes 6,000dkh per LITER.

Wouldn‘t that make it over 4x the potency? Trying to calculate an accurate cost comparison for my tank. I’m currently dosing about 65ml/day of your 2 part (BRS) per day with the addition of 130ml/day Tropic Marin part C and adding 100ml of A and K to each gal on 2 part.

My math is :
58 days/gal @65ml/day

Alk- $6.66/gal +$5 K
Cal- $6.66/gal + $5 A
C- $1.80/gal (130ml/day)

Alk- $6.03/month
Ca- $6.03/month
C- $1.80/month

$13.86/month total

No, saying something us dKH per liter is an incorrect usage of the unit. dKH already is a per unit volume measure.

AFR is 6,000 dKH.

My diy is 5300 dKH.

 

[spsick]

Ok that doesn’t quite click for me, is there another way to understand the potency of a given product with the information the mfgr provides? Tropic Marin also states how much calcium and msg AFR contains but I‘m guessing that falls in the same category as your comment about the dkh contained?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok that doesn’t quite click for me, is there another way to understand the potency of a given product with the information the mfgr provides? Tropic Marin also states how much calcium and msg AFR contains but I‘m guessing that falls in the same category as your comment about the dkh contained?

They just made a technical error in showing the units. It is dKH. There is no such thing as dKH per L.

Just compare the dKH.

 

[areefer01]

Tropic Marin AFR 1600g powder makes 10 liters. Not sure your location but here in the US that container can be found for 75 US dollars pre tax, shipping. Place the order with other supplies to ignore shipping. Assuming you have your alk, ca, and mg where you want them calculate the TM AFR dose and do some basic math on how long that 10 liters will last.

TM AFR also includes elements that the DIY 2 part may, or may not, include. My point is that they are not the same thing not that anyone is trying to say they are. If you want those then you would need to add, supplement, or replenish, with whatever is missing from the 2 part so that would need to be factored in to the cost.

Just keep it simple. 1600g container, powder, TMAFR makes 10 liters. Calculate dose, allow for adjustments, then some math because it is fun and see how long it will last. 10 liters last me about 3 months give or take. I use it for no other reason than convivence of a single do single head and it works. For me.

 

[spsick]

They just made a technical error in showing the units. It is dKH. There is no such thing as dKH per L.

Just compare the dKH.

Ohhhh ok so like my tank is 7dKH any given day, the dKH of x supplement is 5300 or 6000dKH I get it now thanks Randy!!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Right!