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Micro-Reefs Aquarium
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Acrylic grids / skirts are off, what are your thoughts so far?
Creating acrylic black out puzzles to battle Dinoflegellates.
- Thread starter Micro-Reefs Aquarium
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OP
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Micro-Reefs Aquarium
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So far very impressive results against Dinos watch video.
OP
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Micro-Reefs Aquarium
Well-Known Member
Early 24 hours later dinos are gone
OP
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Micro-Reefs Aquarium
Well-Known Member
This project was to show that carefully following amphindiums and how they behave, we can outsmart them temporary. I learned that they don't like shadows, they want to be hit by fixture lighting, I saw that they don't go on aquaculture rock, or healthy corals. They stayed on the sand, if moved they would run away deep into the sandbed, thus you would see your gravel turn white temporary. But they come right back when the dange is gone. They would be at their greatest during the peak lighting period. Okay, so I studied them really well in my tank, and decided to do this acrylic black out procedure. I had seen other reefers do a 7 day blackout on the entire tank where it affects everything in the tank good and bad algae, mine would only target wht top layer of what was on my sandbed and it worked, it drove them gone after I lifted the grids and skirt, 24 hours gone so far. Amphinidiums don't like to be on top surface of acrylic, they have no place to run and hide I found that by observation. I have now turned the favors in my tank back to me, I need a defense now, I need to make sure I don't let my nutrients drop to zero like I did when they came. That is hard in such a small tank that I am using to keep ULNS SPS frags 12 gallons. What I can say is that I don't believe in chemicals to regain control of your tank if you have sand dinos, amphinidiums which are the worse to have, I have proven to beat them back with just a surface 7 day blackout that anyone on this board can do with black acrylic from Lowes or Homedepot. You can do this under $48.99 and that involves zero chemicials and allows your fish and corals to continue receiving normal feeding and normal dosing and light 24 7days a week. Dinos don't like the black out, so they go dormant in cysts waiting for conditions to come back so they will populate again, thus you need to set up defense so they don't come back if they do, redo the offensive line that drove them back. I want to see how many days I get of zero dinos in observation and how many I count with my microscope which I will share with all of you. This is a win for anyone struggling with Amphinidiums on the sandbed only.
OP
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Micro-Reefs Aquarium
Well-Known Member
If I make it 1 month without them coming back I think this will be a win for all of us on this board suffereing with Amphinidums. They are the worse, I cannot stand them and I have beaten them back all of them in 7 day black out on the gravel only. My corals and fish never suffered from the blackout. That is why I like this method much better than a full 7 day blackout on a reeftank, that is just too much for fish and corals etc. Remember this is about regaining control or your sandbed in 7 days and then setting up a really good defense, the offensive line has worked it beat them back, now you need to keep the phos and nitrates to levels they cannot take adavanatge of, that is hear, if I can do that for 30 days, they should not reutrn, if I slip up they can come back, that is why keeping a ULNS is so dang hard, we want the colors of SPS to boom but if the nutrients drop the terror shows up.
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Micro-Reefs Aquarium
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OP
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Micro-Reefs Aquarium
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Control Tank
JayA
Active Member
I like your idea of blocking the light from the dinos on your sand vs. lights out in your tank.
OP
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Micro-Reefs Aquarium
Well-Known Member
Thanks Jay, I am posting on two forums in facebook, exclusively about Dinoflagellates and nothing else, it is here that I started observing them on the sandbed and studying them with a microscope to ID them. Amphinidiums is one of the hardest to hit, because it stays on the sand and retreates deep below during the night only to return heavy during the greatest lighting period you have on your system. They don't like aquacultured live rock, they don't like to hang out under shadows that are casted on your tank, they are not underneath your live rock, They are mixotrophic they will borrow energy from your light and steal energy from nutrients within the water column. They run away from predation as is evident when you turn the sand, it turns white since they scatter for safety. Okay, so my bigest hurtle was will they jump on top of the black acrylic grids that I lay down to supress there ability to take light. Withing a couple of days that the grids went down, I noticed my snails feeding from the top of the acrylic grids, this was a win for me, they in my opinion do not like to be out in the open where they cannot run below the plate they are on, they someone sense that in my opinion they can move really good with the cilia they posses. After 1 week of the grids and skirt, I removed it to see what I had, and from observation alone I have gotten 48 hours of zero dinos on the surface of my sandbed, when before it was impossible to remove, I would try several vacuums with micron 5 socks, and nothing they would come back in 1 hour. The grids so far are non toxic, they are inespensive $48 dollars at Lowes or Home Depot, no dinox, no hydrogen peroxide, no reducing your light schedeule, no turning the light to blue, no raising the heat of your tank, no stopping feeding, 7 day full blackouts are targeting good and blad algae all togehter, the grids preven only what is on your sandbed. I only dosed Bright Wells Neo Phos and Neo Nitro to keep. Phos at .04-.08 and Nitrate at 5ppm to 12ppm. Now that I have placed Amphinidiums in Cysts I need to create a defense against their return, perhaps dosing at this time Silcates to enduce diatoms will be nice for the CUC crew. I have worked hard to create this test and patience to share with everyone here on reef2reef. I don't know of anyone else that has ever done a 7 day blackout on the gravel only, it is a first and it is working so far.
chema
Active Member
Hi: I read carefully your posts and think that the use of acrylic grids it is a great idea. I'm about to try it as I have a heavy sand infestation with Amphidinium that have got worse with some cyano.
Just would like to know how things have gone along this month. Is your sand still clean?
Just would like to know how things have gone along this month. Is your sand still clean?
OP
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Micro-Reefs Aquarium
Well-Known Member
My system is still visiblily clear of Amphinidiums when I say that I mean the gravel is ghost white and exactly as I have shown it, we are going on 20 days since I pulled off the grids/skirt. Remember I only did the blackout for 7 days straight and then lifted them.
Everyone projected opinions that this would be fruittile and fail since full blackouts on reefs had failed horribly with the return of dinos equal or worse than before.
I studied my dinos for more than 30 days before I acted on the plates, it was based on observation that these dinos I had were using the light for some nutrients remember they are mixotrophic. I knew I had something to try when I saw that my dinos were not going in casted shadows and not under my rocks nor on AQUACULTURED rock, not that dry rock and doesn't have a lot of life on it.
Run the plates and the skirt, just like you see my videos, take your time, do 14 days if 7 is not enough, I promise you this, when you uncover the grids it will have pushed them back to cyst format, at least that is what I believe happeed to them.
Be sure to run carbon just to keep the tank running healthy if you have any die off. Lay down those acrylic pieces, overlap them cut them to your size that you need, you will see results, I promise you that.
OP
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Micro-Reefs Aquarium
Well-Known Member
Over the weekend, I will be 1 month since covering them! Sand is still white and they have not visibly returned, they are there but not in the population of seeing them. My microscope will video them this weekend.
chema
Active Member
I'm very happy to know that your system is doing well and free from Amphidinium. The idea of the sand blackout is simply brilliant. In former times I have carried out total blackouts to get rid of cyano (3-4 days). They work, but there is no point in stressing corals and other animals with a total blackout when the problem is in the sand but not in the rocks.
I have also observed that the Amphidinium spots always cover areas with bright illumination. On the contrary, the sand below rock overheads is free from infestations.
In addition to covering the sand I have the intention to add some new live rock, some bacteria, and may be also some live sand to increase biodiversity. Therefore, by the time there are only dormant Amphidinium cysts there might be enough bacteria populating the sand so as to prevent a new burst.
I have also observed that the Amphidinium spots always cover areas with bright illumination. On the contrary, the sand below rock overheads is free from infestations.
In addition to covering the sand I have the intention to add some new live rock, some bacteria, and may be also some live sand to increase biodiversity. Therefore, by the time there are only dormant Amphidinium cysts there might be enough bacteria populating the sand so as to prevent a new burst.
OP
OP
Micro-Reefs Aquarium
Well-Known Member
That is why i drove to do the acrylic plates, for exactly what you and I had observed, these dinos did only project themselves on areas of the sand where light would be transmitted to them. I moved in to cover those areas and doing so choked them out. They are still there but in much smaller concentrations.
chema
Active Member
I have followed the procedure outlined by Micro-Reefs Aquarium. Basically:
1. Design and cut pieces of acrylic to cover most of the sand where dinos and cyano were thriving
2. Skirts to cover the lateral bottom areas of the tank (this was done with several layers of opaque blue tape)
3. Covering was carried out for 12-14 days.
4. Afterwards, I removed the grids and skirts and syphoned the sand. The water was returned to the sump through a felt sock, so no water change was involved.
5. I immediately started adding bacteria to the tank (Fauna Marin ReBiotic)
After removing both the grids and skirts I no traces of dinos could be observed. Tha sand under the covered areas was absolulety clean. Some cyano remained in the borders of the covered areas, indicating that it was still alive where some light could hit it. It has been 3 days after the end of the treatment and still no dinos are visible. However it is too son to say the treatment was successful. Let's see what happens in the next weeks.
I do not plan to do a water change in the next weeks. However I keep adding traces (Mo, Mn, V, I, Fe and Cr). I also add Sr and K on a daily basis. When I stopped adding traces the dinos persisted and my corals were seriously affected (mostly montiporas).
1. Design and cut pieces of acrylic to cover most of the sand where dinos and cyano were thriving
2. Skirts to cover the lateral bottom areas of the tank (this was done with several layers of opaque blue tape)
3. Covering was carried out for 12-14 days.
4. Afterwards, I removed the grids and skirts and syphoned the sand. The water was returned to the sump through a felt sock, so no water change was involved.
5. I immediately started adding bacteria to the tank (Fauna Marin ReBiotic)
After removing both the grids and skirts I no traces of dinos could be observed. Tha sand under the covered areas was absolulety clean. Some cyano remained in the borders of the covered areas, indicating that it was still alive where some light could hit it. It has been 3 days after the end of the treatment and still no dinos are visible. However it is too son to say the treatment was successful. Let's see what happens in the next weeks.
I do not plan to do a water change in the next weeks. However I keep adding traces (Mo, Mn, V, I, Fe and Cr). I also add Sr and K on a daily basis. When I stopped adding traces the dinos persisted and my corals were seriously affected (mostly montiporas).
Mywifeisgunnakillme
Valuable Member
I have a couple rounds with dinos, in two different tanks set up in the last 12 months. Manual removal, UV, making sure nitrate and phosphates are in a normalish ranges, and live phyto and bacterial additions have beat it back each time relative quickly. Dino free for many weeks on the latest tank set up now.
I would say aggressive manual removal, turkey basting and filtering, and this idea of just blacking out the substrate is a pretty good one!
chema
Active Member
It is a common place in the dynos treatment threads to state that phosphate and nitrate should be detectable, or to say that it is good to increase nitrate and phosphate levels.
My tank has been running for the last year with nitrate levels between 5 and 10 ppm and phosphate levels between 0,06 and 0,2 ppm. Usually nitrate is around 8 ppm and phosphate around 0,1 ppm, what makes a ratio around 80.
My tank has been running for the last year with nitrate levels between 5 and 10 ppm and phosphate levels between 0,06 and 0,2 ppm. Usually nitrate is around 8 ppm and phosphate around 0,1 ppm, what makes a ratio around 80.
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