Designing flow in my next tank

[taylorjonl]

I am planning on building a 450+ gallon tank in a wall in my basement. It will be a 72"x60"x30" tank and I am guessing it will be around 450g. This tank is my inspiration:

Details on that tank can be found here:

http://www.oregonreef.com

What I am trying to figure out right now is how to get flow in the tank(not counting the sump/return flow). If possible I would like to avoid drilling a lot of holes, especially in the bottom of the tank because that makes me nervous. My initial thought is to use a couple gyre XF280s on the back along with 3x 1.5" Sea Swirls with some eductors powered by ReeFlo Super Darts.

So I fired up Sketchup and mocked up this stuff:

My math looks like this:

12000 GPH from 2x gyre XF280s
51600 GPH from 3x ReeFlo Super Darts with eductors(boosts 4x?)

I have read a little about eductors and according to this pages it will flow 4-5 gallons per gallon pumped:

http://www.aquaticponds.com/Eductor...uoS-Ld6v6H5-TxVss1QvwB4aLUmvKQ0lwIaApUy8P8HAQ

So first off, is my math correct? If so I think that is plenty of flow. Second is this what you would do? Third, how noticeable do you think the Sea Swirls would be?

This will be in a wall and a bezel will cover up a portion of the aquarium, I am hoping that will allow me to hide the Sea Swirls, this is what I think it will look like:

 

[nervousmonkey]

Wow! nice planning and big tank! Love the dimensions!

As far as eductors go, I do not think you'll need them with Sea Swirls, plus they create a good deal of head pressure, as well as the Sea Swirls so you are reducing flow right out of the gate, or at least increasing the pressure required for your pump. Eductors are great but they blow a LOT of water. With the XF280s on the back, I think you'll love the flow you get all the way to the front of the tank, then dispersed by Sea Swirls will give you a real ocean feel to the tank. Adding eductors is a lot like bringing in a hurricane, I wouldn't do it. The only tank I have liked having an eductor on was a tank that was 60" long and I had to move the water to the other end. It did the job. You can try the eductors out though, they aren't expensive, so the only way to really know is to try it, but you'll blow sand all around with them on.

Can't wait to follow the progression of this set up!

Cheers,

Lloyd

 

[brownsalt92]

Bring on the build thread now! The depth to this new tank will make for a very unique aquascape

 

[Rick.45cal]

If I was setting up a display like yours I would use two Panta Rhei ECM 63's instead of the maxspect Gyres. Very nice plan!

 

[taylorjonl]

Bring on the build thread now! The depth to this new tank will make for a very unique aquascape

I would start a build thread but I don't want 15 pages before any progress happens, I am a good 4-6 months before I order the first piece of equipment, I first need to get a structural engineer out so I can beam a load bearing wall, cut up the concrete to plumb in a drain plus I want to design my fish room. Here is a sneak peak on the final location of the tank:

 

[nervousmonkey]

Man, Panta Rhei's would be awesome, but wow, going from 4 and change to almost 2K. But any serious reefer would walk in, look, tell themselves they better take pics cause one doesn't see a Panta Rhei, really anywhere. Kidding, i'm sure there are people that love those things and would have nothing less, but I can't justify 2K on a powerhead...

 

[bhavy]

Hi
Nice! If I may ... I have a in wall in between my great room and den. 72x24x24. My sump room directly below. I didn't want ugly pumps or wires in display. So I killed 2 birds with 1 stone. I have 2 vectra L1 returns splitting to 4 outputs in the sides of tank with eductors = 1500-1700gph flow and return! Then supplemented with 1 mp40.
Just a thought for you.

 

[arman]

Thats awesome man.Wish i had your space.And money

 

[bhavy]

It also is just a opinion but it may be hard to service such a wide tank
Once things grow in it will almost be impossible to clean or get to the middle

 

[taylorjonl]

It also is just a opinion but it may be hard to service such a wide tank
Once things grow in it will almost be impossible to clean or get to the middle

I don't think it will be too difficult to access the middle, the photos of the framing I posted earlier was an older revision, since that time I added more space on the sides of the aquarium to make it easier to maintain:

There will be a 15" ledge on three sides of the tank to make it easier to do maintenance and if needed I may setup some type of harness with a sliding rail to allow me to hang over the tank.

Also, this tank will only have enough sand in the tank to keep the bottom covered, so no DSB and I will probably vacuum heavily, meaning I will take a lot of sand out with each vacuuming, then I will just add new sand to balance out.

 

[Rick.45cal]

Man, Panta Rhei's would be awesome, but wow, going from 4 and change to almost 2K. But any serious reefer would walk in, look, tell themselves they better take pics cause one doesn't see a Panta Rhei, really anywhere. Kidding, i'm sure there are people that love those things and would have nothing less, but I can't justify 2K on a powerhead...

I understand the thought completely! The comparison between the two is really apples and oranges. The Panta Rhei are what public aquariums use. Even just one in a tank that size would leave no dead spots.

I run 4 ECM 42's on my tank, I can attest to them being worth every red cent. The ECM 63 takes it to whole other level. (A man can dream big right)

 

[taylorjonl]

I understand the thought completely! The comparison between the two is really apples and oranges. The Panta Rhei are what public aquariums use. Even just one in a tank that size would leave no dead spots.

I run 4 ECM 42's on my tank, I can attest to them being worth every red cent. The ECM 63 takes it to whole other level. (A man can dream big right)

The price isn't really that much different, here is the cost of my current setup:

$449.99 = $449.99 x 1 Maxspect Gyre XF280 w/ Controller
$309.99 = $309.99 x 1 Maxspect Gyre XF280
$1287.00 = $429.00 x 3 1.5" Sea Swirl
$1197.00 = $399.00 x 3 ReeFlow Super Dart
--------------------------------------------
$3243.98

160 watts = 80 watts x 2 Maxspect Gyre XF280
9 watts = 3 watts x 3 1.5" Sea Swirl
441 watts = 147 watts x 3 ReeFlo Super Dart
--------------------------------------------
610 watts = 14.640 kWh or $1.75 per day or $641.23 per year

10600 GPH = 5300 GPH x 2 Maxspect Gyre XF280
12900 GPH = 4300 GPH x 3 ReeFlo Super Dart
--------------------------------------------
23500 GPH​

We are talking $3250 initial cost and $650 per year to power it. When I look at the ECM 42's I get this:

$2220 = $555.00 x 4 Panta Rhei ECM 42 Hydrowizard
--------------------------------------------
$2220.00

124 watts = 31 watts x 4 Panta Rhei ECM 42 Hydrowizard
--------------------------------------------
124 watts = 2.976 kWh or $0.35 per day or $130.34 per year

22000 GPH = 5500 GPH x 4 Panta Rhei ECM 42 Hydrowizard
--------------------------------------------
22000 GPH​

So a lot less initial cost and a lot less to run all year for almost the same flow.

Then we look at the ECM 63's:

$3970.00 = $1985.00 x 2 Panta Rhei ECM 63 Hydrowizard
--------------------------------------------
$3970.00

240 watts = 120 watts x 2 Panta Rhei ECM 63 Hydrowizard
--------------------------------------------
240 watts = 5.760 kWh or $0.69 per day or $252.28 per year

2900 GPH = 14500 GPH x 2 Panta Rhei ECM 63 Hydrowizard
--------------------------------------------
29000 GPH​

So it costs more than my original setup by around $700 but will cost $400 less per year to run, so it pays for itself in 2 years.

My primary concern is control and random flow, can the Panta Rhei's be controlled by an Apex? How do I get random flow with these pumps?

 

[Rick.45cal]

The ECM 42's you have to get a seperate USB controller that will control up to 6 pumps if you want to control them as DC pumps. The ECM 63 has it's own controller that does all kinds a different flow patterns etc. Joe at Unique corals is the guy you need to talk to about all the details, I have no experience with the larger ECM 63's.

I can tell you that my ECM 42's move water like nothing else I have ever seen. I can only imagine what the ECM 63's will do.

There are only a few videos on youtube with them, some are in german, but all are worth watching, especially with your killer set up. If you want it rocking and rolling the Panta Rhei's are the way to do it.

 

[Rick.45cal]

I know it's in German. At about 1:39 he turns the ECM 63 on.

 

[taylorjonl]

Those pumps look very powerful and the ECM 42 has an amazing wattage per GPH rating but the control options are pretty bad. Do you have details on how you use yours? How do you handle feed time? Do you have details or a build thread for your system?

 

[Rick.45cal]

I just have mine set up to cycle on and off using my Apex. I also have their "USB interface" controller but haven't set it up. It uses their program (on a flash drive) to control up to 6 pumps, both ecm 42's and 63's. you can program pretty complex patterns using their program. I just haven't bothered to mess with it. I've got my ecm 42's running full out on a 60" x 27.5"x27.5" tank. I run them alternating so I have an alternating gyre. The flow they produce and the size of the pumps outweigh that shortcoming at least for my uses.

This is a little while ago


Flow change with purple gorgonian.

 

[Rick.45cal]

Here's the link to the USB controller instructions.
http://www.panta-rhei-aquatics.com/...172136364_Operating_Manual_Panta_Logic_EN.pdf

It's hard to find stuff out about these products almost everything is in German.

 

[Rick.45cal]

Using their software and programs you can design changes in flow down to the minute, and even create seasonal changes. You can make it as simple or as complex as you possibly could want it. I've chosen to just run them simply, and they work great for my needs. Sometime I will get around to playing with the controller and seeing what cool stuff I can do with it.

 

[haanstang]

I am planning on building a 450+ gallon tank in a wall in my basement. It will be a 72"x60"x30" tank and I am guessing it will be around 450g. This tank is my inspiration:

Details on that tank can be found here:

http://www.oregonreef.com

What I am trying to figure out right now is how to get flow in the tank(not counting the sump/return flow). If possible I would like to avoid drilling a lot of holes, especially in the bottom of the tank because that makes me nervous. My initial thought is to use a couple gyre XF280s on the back along with 3x 1.5" Sea Swirls with some eductors powered by ReeFlo Super Darts.

So I fired up Sketchup and mocked up this stuff:

My math looks like this:

12000 GPH from 2x gyre XF280s
51600 GPH from 3x ReeFlo Super Darts with eductors(boosts 4x?)

I have read a little about eductors and according to this pages it will flow 4-5 gallons per gallon pumped:

http://www.aquaticponds.com/Eductor...uoS-Ld6v6H5-TxVss1QvwB4aLUmvKQ0lwIaApUy8P8HAQ

So first off, is my math correct? If so I think that is plenty of flow. Second is this what you would do? Third, how noticeable do you think the Sea Swirls would be?

This will be in a wall and a bezel will cover up a portion of the aquarium, I am hoping that will allow me to hide the Sea Swirls, this is what I think it will look like:

I don't know if someone already posted this but a72 x 60 x 30 tank is 561 gallons but that is measuring the outside dimensions and water all the way to the top. Just like tank manufacturers do.
If you will have let's say 3/4" glass and your waterline is 2" down from the top that is still 500 gallons of water.
Wow. Nice[emoji1360]

 

[taylorjonl]

I don't know if someone already posted this but a72 x 60 x 30 tank is 561 gallons but that is measuring the outside dimensions and water all the way to the top. Just like tank manufacturers do.
If you will have let's say 3/4" glass and your waterline is 2" down from the top that is still 500 gallons of water.
Wow. Nice[emoji1360]

I think I did my calculations at a 1" also 3" from top, so 70x58x26 which is 456 gallons I think.