Dino ID + Treatment

[EnterName]

Ugh, UV package is delayed and in USPS limbo.

Nutrients:
NO3 24.7
PO4 .31!

Tank is looking really good though, just a light dusting of brown on the sand, the rocks are not covered like they were, and the back wall is starting to clear up with the snails help. No redish brown hue anymore either, just brown. Pumps are staying cleaner as well. Have not been UV sweeping, just letting the sand do its thing and basting areas that are ugly as I see them.

Glad it's getting better.
Have you checked under a microscope? Still "pizza" diatoms (cf. Licmophora) or something else now?

 

[Mas0n]

Ugh, UV package is delayed and in USPS limbo.

Nutrients:
NO3 24.7
PO4 .31!

Tank is looking really good though, just a light dusting of brown on the sand, the rocks are not covered like they were, and the back wall is starting to clear up with the snails help. No redish brown hue anymore either, just brown. Pumps are staying cleaner as well. Have not been UV sweeping, just letting the sand do its thing and basting areas that are ugly as I see them.

Glad it's getting better.
Have you checked under a microscope? Still "pizza" diatoms (cf. Licmophora) or something else now?

Yep. Pizza diatoms, Ostreopsis, and what I believe to be small cell amphidinium based on their physical size.

 

[Mas0n]

Progress picture from yesterday

 

[EnterName]

Looks like a very young/new tank. I'm not even sure you would have needed any treatment in the first place (besides keeping corals free) assuming you don't see fish or CUC struggle with toxins.

I think it' s just a matter of patience

 

[Mas0n]

Looks like a very young/new tank. I'm not even sure you would have needed any treatment in the first place (besides keeping corals free) assuming you don't see fish or CUC struggle with toxins.

I think it' s just a matter of patience

Its just under 6 months now and I started with live rock. I guess I didn't skip the uglies as much as I'd hoped.

 

[Mas0n]

Looking solid still, its getting harder to find dinos on the microscope slides. Even when pulling "ugly" patches, there aren't millions of them running around.

Hair algae?

Cloudy tank after adding 8ml Nitribiotic. Who knows if this does anything, but it "feels" nice to add "good" bacteria.

Also dosed another 1.5ml of Waterglass to encourage one last diatom bloom. It feels like I'm in the end stages of this.

 

[Mas0n]

Great diatom bloom going on

 

[EnterName]

Looking solid still, its getting harder to find dinos on the microscope slides. Even when pulling "ugly" patches, there aren't millions of them running around.

Hair algae?

Cloudy tank after adding 8ml Nitribiotic. Who knows if this does anything, but it "feels" nice to add "good" bacteria.

Also dosed another 1.5ml of Waterglass to encourage one last diatom bloom. It feels like I'm in the end stages of this.

The "hair algae" could be cyanos. Did they move by any chance? (It's normal to find some from time to time it's nothing to worry about if they don't grow uncontrollably)

 

[Mas0n]

Looking solid still, its getting harder to find dinos on the microscope slides. Even when pulling "ugly" patches, there aren't millions of them running around.

Hair algae?

Cloudy tank after adding 8ml Nitribiotic. Who knows if this does anything, but it "feels" nice to add "good" bacteria.

Also dosed another 1.5ml of Waterglass to encourage one last diatom bloom. It feels like I'm in the end stages of this.

The "hair algae" could be cyanos. Did they move by any chance? (It's normal to find some from time to time it's nothing to worry about if they don't grow uncontrollably)

Nope, completely still! Didn’t know cyano moved, makes sense though

 

[EnterName]

Nope, completely still! Didn’t know cyano moved, makes sense though

They don't always move, but they can:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/microscopy-thread.1138845/post-14401969 (10th post on page 3 if you are using the app)
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/microscopy-thread.1138845/post-14522099 (3rd post on page 11 if you are using the app)

The color looks so red/purple-ish so I though you might have found some cyano filaments instead of hair algae, which usually green as red algae (Rhodophyta) are relatively rare or look different under the microscope.

 

[Mas0n]

New Diatoms!

I think I see some type of Cylindrotheca? @EnterName

 

[Mas0n]

They don't always move, but they can:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/microscopy-thread.1138845/post-14401969 (10th post on page 3 if you are using the app)
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/microscopy-thread.1138845/post-14522099 (3rd post on page 11 if you are using the app)

The color looks so red/purple-ish so I though you might have found some cyano filaments instead of hair algae, which usually green as red algae (Rhodophyta) are relatively rare or look different under the microscope.

Was not expecting that type of movement, too cool!

 

[EnterName]

New Diatoms!

I think I see some type of Cylindrotheca? @EnterName

Further to the left of your pointer is one but the one you point to doesn't seem to have the "long arms" or I just can't see them. Either way, a shift in the observed diatoms seems to correlate really well with a change in dino presence in during my experiments so far. A good sign in my opinion for now

 

[Mas0n]

Still cruising along.

Nutrients
NO3 42.9
PO4 .3

No nuisance algae. Just sand uglies still.

 

[EnterName]

Still cruising along.

Nutrients
NO3 42.9
PO4 .3

No nuisance algae. Just sand uglies still.

I don't think low nutrient levels are your issue at the moment

I personally wouldn't overdo it. 10ppm and 0.1ppm are already plenty and then it's a matter of keeping them "stable" and patience.

Very high nutrient levels can inhibit growth of potentially beneficial/competing organisms, so no need to go as far as 40ppm NO3 and 0.3ppm PO4 in my opinion. It will just feed other nuisance algae once the dinos are gone.

If your dino-issue was caused by "too low nutrients" they would probably already be gone. I think it will be a waiting game. The biofilm that seems to be growing on your substrate apparently allows for dinoflagellates to thrive quite well. In "healthy" tanks something appears to be limiting their growth. This could be competing algae, but also bacteria that inhibit or even kill dinoflagellates. Their interaction appears to be very complex https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-023-00925-z.

 

[Mas0n]

Right back to square one

 

[RobertK]

Right back to square one

I feel your pain!

 

[Mas0n]

Still cruising along.

Nutrients
NO3 42.9
PO4 .3

No nuisance algae. Just sand uglies still.

I don't think low nutrient levels are your issue at the moment

I personally wouldn't overdo it. 10ppm and 0.1ppm are already plenty and then it's a matter of keeping them "stable" and patience.

Very high nutrient levels can inhibit growth of potentially beneficial/competing organisms, so no need to go as far as 40ppm NO3 and 0.3ppm PO4 in my opinion. It will just feed other nuisance algae once the dinos are gone.

If your dino-issue was caused by "too low nutrients" they would probably already be gone. I think it will be a waiting game. The biofilm that seems to be growing on your substrate apparently allows for dinoflagellates to thrive quite well. In "healthy" tanks something appears to be limiting their growth. This could be competing algae, but also bacteria that inhibit or even kill dinoflagellates. Their interaction appears to be very complex https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-023-00925-z.

Agree they are too high! Working to bring them down to a more reasonable level.

Interesting article!

 

[Mas0n]

Hopping back on a nice schedule for this.

Going to leave the sand completely undisturbed this time. It seems like blowing the dinos around didn’t help much and they came back worse

 

[martin.a]

What allegedly worked for me was coral snow mixed with bacteria. Maybe give it a go? BTW, calcium carbonate powders differ in particle size and surface area, I have 2 different ones, and they work differently. I started with a rather insane dose of 4g/100L mixed with doubled advised dose of bacteria. I failed to smuggle Nitribiotic into AU and used a local live bacteria product. There was a huge effect after first dosage and continued improvement after consecutive, daily treatments. BTW, I came with use of coral snow as a way to deliver bacteria to the substrate. Just pouring bacteria into water seemed, and likely was futile.

This is of course post hoc ergo propter hoc, as EnterName would say , and I have no control and no replica. I do not know if snow itself would be enough. Since I started snowing, my sand sifting starfish and strombus snails started combing the sand in turbo mode (before they were... like dying). Again, I have no idea if they actually digest dinos, but I hope that at least they make the sand less inviting.

I completely stopped UV and any artificial sand or rock disturbance (blowing, vacuuming). I started dosing Tisby as I am worried that there are only Apocyclops left. Population of pods suffered badly during the dino outbreak. I can't tell Apocyclops and Tisbe apart, even under scope. Dosing was just easier. And I have anoter side-hobby - a coppepod culture.

BTW. I know that there are doubts among reefers at this forum if CaCO3 powder, being 'nothing more than stirred sand' really works. Yes, it does and no, it is not just stirred sand. It's not a perfect comparison but this is like comparing activated carbon to charcoal dust. Gosh, I sound like a zealot. Treat accordingly.