DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

[Jon_W79]

I caution people not to read too much into studies that just have one coral. They are not nothing, but also might not say much. A. Palmata might be one of the worst since it appears headed for extinction even before humans interfered with where it lives - this coral is not great at living in our current world. There are other studies out there in the GBR and other wild places that also indicated that corals will gather building blocks and energy 24/7. This was just one that I found quickly since I do not link studies much and mostly just read them.

Most other studies show that corals are excellently efficient at gathering nitrogen from ammonia and it is there largest, and preferred source.

In any case, I think that most over estimate how much food that acropora can catch in the wild. The biologist in the Coral Sea that we talked to said that nearly no plankton comes to the areas where the acropora grows, when it does, it is seasonal and there is no evidence that they can catch or digest anything caught in polyps - LPS and softies are different and appear to be able to digest things of the right size. Bacteria and small things that stick in the slime coat appear the other other sources of energy and building blocks other than the sun, sulphur in the water, nitrogen in ammonia, meta and poly phosphates, carbon in bicarbonate. You see one study that says that corals eat a lot and another that they do not eat a lot.

These corals do not need a lot of nitrogen or phosphorous. Sulphur is abundant in the ocean and so are sugars from light. N and P are only really needed to grow and form new organic tissue, not for daily function. Most hobbyists think that nitrate, or nitrogen is fuel or food or something and that more of a surplus is better.

As for timing, the bottom line is: who cares. If you want stuff to be healthy then provide it all of the time and let the corals get what they want, when they want. Only humans are dumb enough to try and outsmart nature and think that they can do it better. Feeding the fish and stuff before lights out might let them process and dump waste into the night for the corals to eat... crabs, shrimp and stuff can follow a bit later.

I think that acropora can grow a lot faster in the ocean than a reef tank. There must be some things that can be improved about a reef tank.

 

[jda]

I think that acropora can grow a lot faster in the ocean than a reef tank. There must be some things that can be improved about a reef tank.

I would look more to 2000+ PAR and not just spectrum that human eyes can see. Corals grew faster in captivity in the past too.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

but can I add it to my kalk ATO solution?

Nitrate, yes. Ammonia with caution. Kalkwasser would need to be covered as it will smell and slowly evaporate ammonia.

 

[ncjeepguy75]

Update…
After starting to dose ammonia on 8/2/23, which I am now 7 days in…

I switched over from ammonium hydroxide solution (unsure of the purity) to ammonium bicarbonate food grade as suggested here in this discussion.

Currently dosing 10 ml of stock solution in the morning and another 10 ml in the evening, both while lights on. This makes for a 20ml total daily dose.

Corals and maxima clam are loving it! Open, extended, and slight increase in color.

Not seeing any detrimental effects at this time.

-Nitrates: I have tested daily and are stable but ping ponging between 6.8 and 7.2 (using Hanna HR tester)
-Phosphates: are holding steady at .04ppm (using Hanna ULR tester). This is with me dosing every other day to keep it steady, as I don’t want it to bottom out.
-Alkalinity: has been on a slow decrease from 10.5 dKh now down to 10.1 dKh. So with that I am slowly increasing my dose of Kalkwasser to get back closer to 10.5 (keep mine here due to pH issues).

Thoughts…
-possibly adding another 10ml dose of ammonia in between the morning and evening doses? This would take the ammonia dosing to a daily total of 30ml.
-since I still see the puff of hair algae, might I want to try to get nitrates down to and stable around 5ppm?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for the update!

 

[drawman]

Update…
After starting to dose ammonia on 8/2/23, which I am now 7 days in…

I switched over from ammonium hydroxide solution (unsure of the purity) to ammonium bicarbonate food grade as suggested here in this discussion.

Currently dosing 10 ml of stock solution in the morning and another 10 ml in the evening, both while lights on. This makes for a 20ml total daily dose.

Corals and maxima clam are loving it! Open, extended, and slight increase in color.

Not seeing any detrimental effects at this time.

-Nitrates: I have tested daily and are stable but ping ponging between 6.8 and 7.2 (using Hanna HR tester)
-Phosphates: are holding steady at .04ppm (using Hanna ULR tester). This is with me dosing every other day to keep it steady, as I don’t want it to bottom out.
-Alkalinity: has been on a slow decrease from 10.5 dKh now down to 10.1 dKh. So with that I am slowly increasing my dose of Kalkwasser to get back closer to 10.5 (keep mine here due to pH issues).

Thoughts…
-possibly adding another 10ml dose of ammonia in between the morning and evening doses? This would take the ammonia dosing to a daily total of 30ml.
-since I still see the puff of hair algae, might I want to try to get nitrates down to and stable around 5ppm?

Great update!

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Six weeks now. Dosing has finally leveled out somewhere between 3-4 ppm per day. It was as high as 5ppm at one point but has stabilized lower now. I’m still dosing quite a bit more phosphate than I was for years prior to ammonia, and it appears that’s not going to change as it’s been stable for awhile now. My ph has decreased slightly. It’s typically 8.05-8.31 every single day. It was trending down (even after the week of dog sitting multiple dogs for a week at week 5) and got to 7.89-8.22 before I decided to drip a little Kalk overnight (6.3ml per minute for 10 hours). I’m still tinkering with that as I don’t want it to get too high, currently 8.1-8.41 which I’m hoping is dialed in now. Can’t comment on growth or color, but a regular non-reefing visitor mentioned quote wow all the little flowers are blooming in your tank, I’ve never seen those before. So, I’m guessing the polyps are much more noticeable! That’s better than the quote your tank is cloudy comment I get from them every now and then if I’m a day or two behind on cleaning the glass. Other than the two little tufts of gha during the first week of dosing, I’ve had no noticeable issues.

 

[PeterErc]

Well, slight mathematical error.
Reading comprehension, mathematics and ADD don’t compute sometimes, more often than not.
I mixed up a 16oz batch of ammonium bicarbonate.
To do so I divided 33.814 by 20 and came up with 1.6097 the multiplied by 16 =27.05
How bout that ,27 grams in 16oz, still no sign of the error even though 20g to liter.
Then 2.3 x 6 (150g) =13.8 ml solution.
I did a dose last night with no ill effects, BTA and mushroom inflated, cool it works.
I then put 30ml in 16oz and set up a drip. It is still dripping so 30ml approximately in 24hr.
I added another 13-15ml shot this morning before work.
I had a moment of clarity on my way to work. Oh! *^+=!!!
I should have divided 20 by 33.814 = .59 gram per oz.
16x.59= 9.44g ammonium bicarbonate
So I dosed approximately 0.3mg/L
Once again, if my math is correct

I was wondering all day what I would come home to. Well, nothing bad. Seems to me to be a positive response. BTA,LPS and softies are more inflated. SPS that had minimal PE may slightly be reacting.

I had bottomed out NO3 and PO4 with a 24hr photoperiod in sump growing undesirables to bring nitrate and phosphate down, from resetting the tank. I would drain and scrape the algae out of sump and replace with NSW.
It worked so well as an algae scrubber I ended up with Dino’s. I fed like crazy and got PO4 up but NO3 stayed bottomed out even dosing potassium nitrate. I set up a UV and dosed silicate. The Dino’s were slowing down but seem to be responding to the ammonia as well, not in a good way. Will see what tomorrow brings.

 

[Propane]

I have a question about my ammonia dosing or at least a verification of how I’m going about it. Been doing it since all my fish died at the end of may. I was using my fritz fish less fuel until 3 weeks ago when I started with the RHF solution. I was doing 2mls a day (17g) and increased it last week to 2.5 (1.5am1.0pm) My nitrates are still dropping. If I understand the situation that would mean that I could increase it more with caution until nitrates rise and stabilize at higher than 1.9 which is the current level. I was considering about a .5 increase every other day until I’m at 3.5mls and then seeing where I’m at.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have a question about my ammonia dosing or at least a verification of how I’m going about it. Been doing it since all my fish died at the end of may. I was using my fritz fish less fuel until 3 weeks ago when I started with the RHF solution. I was doing 2mls a day (17g) and increased it last week to 2.5 (1.5am1.0pm) My nitrates are still dropping. If I understand the situation that would mean that I could increase it more with caution until nitrates rise and stabilize at higher than 1.9 which is the current level. I was considering about a .5 increase every other day until I’m at 3.5mls and then seeing where I’m at.

That sounds like a fine plan. The higher the dose, the more useful it is to spread it out in time during the day/night.

 

[Propane]

Thank you. I’ll update in a couple of weeks and ask more questions.

 

[Red_Beard]

Thank you @Randy Holmes-Farley! You have always been a trove and wealth of knowledge and insight. I am going to start dosing ammonium bicarb based on your suggested dilution. I have been using neonitro but the bottle is about empty and figured why not

 

[DIFish]

Hey @Randy Holmes-Farley
Great read and glad to see this gaining more traction.
Any thoughts on mixing ammonia with DIY NOPOX or straight vinegar and using a Doser? Have been seeing a lot of good things about heavy in-out systems as well as good side effects to carbon dosing and was wondering if they could be done in tandem.
I have been doing Ammonia through my ATO for the last year or so on and off as needed to maintain readable nitrates but would like to raise my nitrates even further and lightly carbon dose to make the nutrients more readily available. Could this be done in one solution, and if so any weird issues to look out for?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you @Randy Holmes-Farley! You have always been a trove and wealth of knowledge and insight. I am going to start dosing ammonium bicarb based on your suggested dilution. I have been using neonitro but the bottle is about empty and figured why not

Thanks and good luck!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey @Randy Holmes-Farley
Great read and glad to see this gaining more traction.
Any thoughts on mixing ammonia with DIY NOPOX or straight vinegar and using a Doser? Have been seeing a lot of good things about heavy in-out systems as well as good side effects to carbon dosing and was wondering if they could be done in tandem.
I have been doing Ammonia through my ATO for the last year or so on and off as needed to maintain readable nitrates but would like to raise my nitrates even further and lightly carbon dose to make the nutrients more readily available. Could this be done in one solution, and if so any weird issues to look out for?

If the goal is feeding corals or other filter feeders, this sems an OK plan, but you will need to monitor phosphate too.

 

[Propane]

I was considering an ICP test as I’m mostly pleased with where my tank is at and would like to have a reference point. My question is when would be the optimal time to take the sample after dosing the ammonia. I’m now up to 2mls AM and 1.5 mls PM. For 17g. And would the ICP test even be helpful with such low levels of ammonia?

 

[jda]

I would trust the math. The ammonia will immediate start to be taken up in the tank - especially if you have good flow and lots of things to use it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I was considering an ICP test as I’m mostly pleased with where my tank is at and would like to have a reference point. My question is when would be the optimal time to take the sample after dosing the ammonia. I’m now up to 2mls AM and 1.5 mls PM. For 17g. And would the ICP test even be helpful with such low levels of ammonia?

ICP cannot detect ammonia or any other actual chemical. It can only detect atoms, and in this case, N is in lots of things, including N2 from the air, nitrate, and organics.

That said, even if an ICP company ran an ammonia test, I would not give it high confidence after sitting in a closed vial for days.

I'd test for ammonia once a day to start, say 4 h after dosing, and see if you see any.

 

[Propane]

ICP cannot detect ammonia or any other actual chemical. It can only detect atoms, and in this case, N is in lots of things, including N2 from the air, nitrate, and organics.

That said, even if an ICP company ran an ammonia test, I would not give it high confidence after sitting in a closed vial for days.

I'd test for ammonia once a day to start, say 4 h after dosing, and see if you see any.

Thank you! Would the Hannah ammo tester be reliable? I have API but haven’t bothered using it since April as it always showed ammonia in the tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you! Would the Hannah ammo tester be reliable? I have API but haven’t bothered using it since April as it always showed ammonia in the tank.

I don’t know. Perhaps other have tested it. @taricha