DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Updated observation: today I was certain my corals were less fluffy, specifically the tentacles of my gonipora were less expanded. I had been thinking this for weeks, but became convinced today. I measured nitrate and it was 1 ppm.

I dosed a small amount of ammonium bicarbonate equivalent to 0.05ppm ammonia. Within 2 hours all my LPS were expanded quite significantly, better than I’ve seen since stopping ammonia dosing. Pretty dramatic.

So now I am back to wondering what I should do. I think I’ll add a small amount of ammonium bicarbonate to my daily TSP dose. I leave in a couple days so I cannot dial it in, but I think I’ll daily dose about 1/4 of what I did today. Probably not enough, but better than nothing. I’ll be able to observed the impacts in a month.

The experiment continues

Very interesting. If it were me, I’d figure out if there’s a dose that keeps them expanded but not dark (assuming they are not thst dark version now).

An alternate experiment is to dose nitrate when they are not fluffy, and see if that expands them without darkening them.

 

[rishma]

Very interesting. If it were me, I’d figure out if there’s a dose that keeps them expanded but not dark (assuming they are not thst dark version now).

An alternate experiment is to dose nitrate when they are not fluffy, and see if that expands them without darkening them.

I should note that the corals still looked good. Definitely not deflated or unhappy, but I think fluffier is happier :)

yes, the goal would be the find a dose that makes them fluffy but retains the bright colors. Unfortunately I’m getting ready to leave for a month so that fun experiment will have to wait.

I had not thought about nitrate dosing. When I come back home, if the corals look less fluffy, I’ll test nitrate, then dose some nitrate to see what happens. Having dosed nitrate before I don’t recall seeing the corals respond in the short term, but I’ll give it a try.

 

[JTP424]

Random question, because I am still just getting into dosing non-premade mixes....
If I'm dosing ammonium bicarbonate.... I'm assuming it get's "converted" (probably not proper term) into nitrates? Ammonia gets converted by my biomedia?
If that is the case, would a skimmer strip these or a Phosphate dose (either neophos or homemade)?
I know I'm probably completely wrong on some of this, I'm trying to wrap my head around it all...
Or am I oversimplifying.....

 

[rishma]

Random question, because I am still just getting into dosing non-premade mixes....
If I'm dosing ammonium bicarbonate.... I'm assuming it get's "converted" (probably not proper term) into nitrates? Ammonia gets converted by my biomedia?
If that is the case, would a skimmer strip these or a Phosphate dose (either neophos or homemade)?
I know I'm probably completely wrong on some of this, I'm trying to wrap my head around it all...
Or am I oversimplifying.....

Ammonia may get consumed directly by corals (or maybe other things like algae?). Excess will likely be converted to nitrate.

Nitrates and phosphates are not removed directly by the skimmer. Bacteria that consumes them can be removed by the skimmer.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Random question, because I am still just getting into dosing non-premade mixes....
If I'm dosing ammonium bicarbonate.... I'm assuming it get's "converted" (probably not proper term) into nitrates? Ammonia gets converted by my biomedia?
If that is the case, would a skimmer strip these or a Phosphate dose (either neophos or homemade)?
I know I'm probably completely wrong on some of this, I'm trying to wrap my head around it all...
Or am I oversimplifying.....

Dosed ammonia gets involved in a race between many types of organisms trying to take it up.

Corals, macroalgae, and other photosynthetic organisms take it up and use it (and do not release anything).

Nitrifying bacteria take it up, convert it to nitrate, and spit it back out.

heterotrophic bacteria (those that consume organics) can take it up and use it to grow.

So some gets converted to nitrate, but that might range from most of it to little of it, depending on the tank.

Skimmers cannot remove nitrate, and are unlikely to blow off much ammonia to the air (but maybe some).

Dosed inorganic phosphate, such as neophos and DIY sodium phosphate cannot be removed by a skimmer.

 

[JTP424]

Random question, because I am still just getting into dosing non-premade mixes....
If I'm dosing ammonium bicarbonate.... I'm assuming it get's "converted" (probably not proper term) into nitrates? Ammonia gets converted by my biomedia?
If that is the case, would a skimmer strip these or a Phosphate dose (either neophos or homemade)?
I know I'm probably completely wrong on some of this, I'm trying to wrap my head around it all...
Or am I oversimplifying.....

Dosed ammonia gets involved in a race between many types of organisms trying to take it up.

Corals, macroalgae, and other photosynthetic organisms take it up and use it (and do not release anything).

Nitrifying bacteria take it up, convert it to nitrate, and spit it back out.

heterotrophic bacteria (those that consume organics) can take it up and use it to grow.

So some gets converted to nitrate, but that might range from most of it to little of it, depending on the tank.

Skimmers cannot remove nitrate, and are unlikely to blow off much ammonia to the air (but maybe some).

Dosed inorganic phosphate, such as neophos and DIY sodium phosphate cannot be removed by a skimmer.

You are the bomb.com
Thank you so much for the quick and thorough response :)

 

[Joe Rice]

Just started dosing 0.1 ppm ammonium bicarbonate twice daily after getting a Hanna nitrate checker and finding my nitrates consistently undetectable. Been dosing for a couple of weeks and occasionally getting a reading as high as 0.3 nitrate but mostly still at 0.0. Corals definitely don't look any worse and possibly look a bit better but that could just be me wanting to know that I've found something that helps.

My tank is mature (10 years) and rather lightly stocked with fish. Plus I have two frag tanks plumbed in with the display tank. 900 liters altogether.

Thanks, Randy, for the informative thread!

 

[BriDroid]

Just started dosing 0.1 ppm ammonium bicarbonate twice daily after getting a Hanna nitrate checker and finding my nitrates consistently undetectable. Been dosing for a couple of weeks and occasionally getting a reading as high as 0.3 nitrate but mostly still at 0.0. Corals definitely don't look any worse and possibly look a bit better but that could just be me wanting to know that I've found something that helps.

My tank is mature (10 years) and rather lightly stocked with fish. Plus I have two frag tanks plumbed in with the display tank. 900 liters altogether.

Thanks, Randy, for the informative thread!

I’m to the point where I don’t even worry about detectable N anymore. If I check it, it always reads 0.0ppm. I know that I’m putting in N of some form (was using ammonium bicarbonate and now Amino-Orgaic), and I can see the corals are happy, so that’s all I really care about. Trying to get readable N in my tank is difficult, so I’ve just given up and stopped testing for it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for the update folks. I’m now using it as well in a macroalgae refugium. I’m dosing it blind of any testing, along with phosphate, so I hope the macro is taking it up. They clearly are photosynthesizing since I get lots of accumulated bubbles during the day.

 

[lubeck]

Can speak more to this statement or direct me to a thread ?

They clearly are photosynthesizing since I get lots of accumulated bubbles during the day.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Can speak more to this statement or direct me to a thread ?

They clearly are photosynthesizing since I get lots of accumulated bubbles during the day.

Sure. I expect the bubbles are oxygen created by photosynthesis during the day. The bubbles largely disappear at night when oxygen from photosynthesis cannot be taking place.

I cannot actually be sure it is the new macroalgae that I collected from the ocean, but I think that is by far most likely. The water in that refugium has a lot of silicate in it (I set it up using tap water with 4 ppm SiO2) so it might also be photosynthesis by diatoms, but I do not see apparent golden brown diatom growth on exposed surfaces yet.

 

[Joe Rice]

I’m to the point where I don’t even worry about detectable N anymore. If I check it, it always reads 0.0ppm. I know that I’m putting in N of some form (was using ammonium bicarbonate and now Amino-Orgaic), and I can see the corals are happy, so that’s all I really care about. Trying to get readable N in my tank is difficult, so I’ve just given up and stopped testing for it.

Just tested my phosphate and it's dropped from 0.67 to 0.42 over the past 10 days so perhaps that's a better indicator that the ammonium dosing is increasing nutrient uptake

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[lubeck]

Sure. I expect the bubbles are oxygen created by photosynthesis during the day. The bubbles largely disappear at night when oxygen from photosynthesis cannot be taking place.

I cannot actually be sure it is the new macroalgae that I collected from the ocean, but I think that is by far most likely. The water in that refugium has a lot of silicate in it (I set it up using tap water with 4 ppm SiO2) so it might also be photosynthesis by diatoms, but I do not see apparent golden brown diatom growth on exposed surfaces yet.

Not all bubbles created during the day that may sit on the rocks or sand are due to photosynthesis are they? Meaning not all bubbles are “created” equal? I think about Dino’s, bubbles trapped below the sand and just bubbles on rock (that is not related to Dino’s)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Not all bubbles created during the day that may sit on the rocks or sand are due to photosynthesis are they? Meaning not all bubbles are “created” equal? I think about Dino’s, bubbles trapped below the sand and just bubbles on rock (that is not related to Dino’s)

There certainly may be bubbles that are not O2, but bubbles that form during the day and disappear at night are likely O2. I cannot think what else they would be.

 

[Jackalope12]

I’m to the point where I don’t even worry about detectable N anymore. If I check it, it always reads 0.0ppm. I know that I’m putting in N of some form (was using ammonium bicarbonate and now Amino-Orgaic), and I can see the corals are happy, so that’s all I really care about. Trying to get readable N in my tank is difficult, so I’ve just given up and stopped testing for it.

Can I ask why you switched products? And is it the tropic marine Amino-organic you switched to? (Not sure if typo or if another product i should take a look at appeared)

 

[BriDroid]

Can I ask why you switched products? And is it the tropic marine Amino-organic you switched to? (Not sure if typo or if another product i should take a look at appeared)

I noticed that my corals, especially my plates and trachy, were getting darker and has a lot less color. Researching ways to add N, amino acids came up as a useful source. I found that TM Amino-Organic also contains N, so it seemed like a no brainer to give that a try. So far it’s good, but it’s only been a few days.

 

[rishma]

I noticed that my corals, especially my plates and trachy, were getting darker and has a lot less color. Researching ways to add N, amino acids came up as a useful source. I found that TM Amino-Organic also contains N, so it seemed like a no brainer to give that a try. So far it’s good, but it’s only been a few days.

It took 6+ weeks for me to see my pre-ammonia colors come back. I have recommenced a much lower dose of ammonia, and I am away for 4 weeks, so I’ll be able observe if the color darkens again and what my nitrate does.

I noticed my LPS seemed less happy when my nitrate got very low and no ammonia was being dosed. My hope it to find an ammonia dose that makes corals happy and keeps their colors.

You have taken a different route with aminos. It will be great to compare results.

 

[rishma]

Dang-it!!!!

I just realized I made a dumb mistake. I added ammonium bicarbonate to my monosodium phosphate solution but I forgot to purge the dosing line. That means for next four weeks I’ll just be dosing phosphate, the new ammonia + phosphate won’t make it from the dosing container to the tank. Ugh.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Dang-it!!!!

I just realized I made a dumb mistake. I added ammonium bicarbonate to my monosodium phosphate solution but I forgot to purge the dosing line. That means for next four weeks I’ll just be dosing phosphate, the new ammonia + phosphate won’t make it from the dosing container to the tank. Ugh.

Long dosing line?

 

[rishma]

Long dosing line?

Relative to my daily dosing volume, yes. Small tank, small daily dose.