Do zoas sting when touched?

[mcpeachy]

I know they can poison but if I touched the center of a zoa with my bare finger, should it sting an hour later? I also feel slightly nauseous but I'm not sure if correlational quite means causational in this circumstance.

 

[Mayerlyn A]

I have never experienced a sting from my zoas.

 

[Jvesche20]

I've never heard of zoas stinging. Do you have any cuts on your hand or finger? I've grabbed rock before in my tank and it has these sharp small tubes and its hurt but didn't make me bleed and later it would sting for hours. I've touched many zoas and fragged them before and never been stung before.

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

If you are extra sensitive to paly toxin, you can get sick like that just from contact. I am and can get sick from breathing the air in a room where zoas are severely stressed (such as zoas that are being unpacked from being trans shipped). I have also blistered on a few occasions from brushing up against them. Now granted, this doesn't happen all the time, but it's enough I'm quite familiar with what it feels like.

 

[A. grandis]

Show us a picture of that "zoa".

 

[mcpeachy]

If you are extra sensitive to paly toxin, you can get sick like that just from contact. I am and can get sick from breathing the air in a room where zoas are severely stressed (such as zoas that are being unpacked from being trans shipped). I have also blistered on a few occasions from brushing up against them. Now granted, this doesn't happen all the time, but it's enough I'm quite familiar with what it feels like.

i must be sensitive then. I'll have to pay attention to this in the future! it was really only the center that felt like a sting. i'm not sure i've ever noticed before. i have a lot of allergies so i wouldn't be surprised if i'm sensitive.

 

[mcpeachy]

Show us a picture of that "zoa".

it's a devil's armour from wwc. this is the original frag i bought. there are about 12 now.

 

[A. grandis]

I know they can poison but if I touched the center of a zoa with my bare finger, should it sting an hour later? I also feel slightly nauseous but I'm not sure if correlational quite means causational in this circumstance.

it's a devil's armour from wwc. this is the original frag i bought. there are about 12 now.

I strongly believe it is all in your imagination, as...
I do not believe there is an extra sensitive person (as pointed in post # 4 ) that will react to the toxin only an hour after the contact with healthy Zoanthus spp. A person that would be extra sensitive to palytoxin would have immediately accentuate reactions to the toxin. In other words you would be in the hospital right now.
There is a possibility that the reason for the "sting" is another than the zoanthids themselves.
How are you feeling right now?
Are you still feeling nausea? Is that mostly in the morning? Are you pregnant?
What other symptoms?

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

i must be sensitive then. I'll have to pay attention to this in the future! it was really only the center that felt like a sting. i'm not sure i've ever noticed before. i have a lot of allergies so i wouldn't be surprised if i'm sensitive.

Get a box of latex gloves and keep them near your tank and put them on whenever you need to touch anything inside.

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

There is also the possibility that you could have picked up a bristle worm spine and not know it, and then touched it just the right way to make it hurt. I've done this. Getting them out is nearly impossible.

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

I strongly believe it is all in your imagination, as...
I do not believe there is an extra sensitive person (as pointed in post # 4 ) that will react to the toxin only an hour after the contact with healthy Zoanthus spp.

There is a big difference between anaphylactic shock and being sensitive to something.
I.e. four people walk through a patch of poison ivy. One is unaffected, another breaks out in a rash, another breaks out in a rash and swelling severe enough to need medical help, and the fourth one has an anaphylactic reaction and dies.
Just like some fish are more sensitive to ammonia than others.



"The symptoms of palytoxin poisoning and how quickly they appear depend partially on how much and through what route one has been exposed, e.g. if the poison has been inhaled or if the exposure has happened via skin.

In some non-lethal cases the symptoms in people have appeared in 6–8 hours after inhalation or skin exposure, and have lasted for 1–2 days. In different animals the symptoms have appeared in 30–60 minutes after intravenous injection and after 4 hours of eye-exposure."

1. Sud P, Su MK, Greller HA, Majlesi N, Gupta A (September 2013). "Case series: inhaled coral vapor--toxicity in a tank". Journal of Medical Toxicology. 9 (3): 282–6. doi:10.1007/s13181-013-0307-x. PMC 3770997. PMID 23702624.
2. Deeds JR, Schwartz MD (August 2010). "Human risk associated with palytoxin exposure". Toxicon. 56 (2): 150–62. doi:10.1016/j.toxicon.2009.05.035. PMID 19505494

*Palytoxin is also found in other animals besides Zoanthids and Palythoa

Palytoxin and similar toxins are highly potent Na+-K+ ATPase inhibitors occurring in zoanthid corals (Palythoa toxica), red alga, a sea anemone and in dinoflagellates such as Ostrepsis siamensis.

Source: David A Warrell, ... Michael Eddleston, in Hunter's Tropical Medicine and Emerging Infectious Disease (Ninth Edition), 2013

 

[A. grandis]

There is a big difference between anaphylactic shock and being sensitive to something.
I.e. four people walk through a patch of poison ivy. One is unaffected, another breaks out in a rash, another breaks out in a rash and swelling severe enough to need medical help, and the fourth one has an anaphylactic reaction and dies.
Just like some fish are more sensitive to ammonia than others.



"The symptoms of palytoxin poisoning and how quickly they appear depend partially on how much and through what route one has been exposed, e.g. if the poison has been inhaled or if the exposure has happened via skin.

In some non-lethal cases the symptoms in people have appeared in 6–8 hours after inhalation or skin exposure, and have lasted for 1–2 days. In different animals the symptoms have appeared in 30–60 minutes after intravenous injection and after 4 hours of eye-exposure."

1. Sud P, Su MK, Greller HA, Majlesi N, Gupta A (September 2013). "Case series: inhaled coral vapor--toxicity in a tank". Journal of Medical Toxicology. 9 (3): 282–6. doi:10.1007/s13181-013-0307-x. PMC 3770997. PMID 23702624.
2. Deeds JR, Schwartz MD (August 2010). "Human risk associated with palytoxin exposure". Toxicon. 56 (2): 150–62. doi:10.1016/j.toxicon.2009.05.035. PMID 19505494

*Palytoxin is also found in other animals besides Zoanthids and Palythoa

Palytoxin and similar toxins are highly potent Na+-K+ ATPase inhibitors occurring in zoanthid corals (Palythoa toxica), red alga, a sea anemone and in dinoflagellates such as Ostrepsis siamensis.

Source: David A Warrell, ... Michael Eddleston, in Hunter's Tropical Medicine and Emerging Infectious Disease (Ninth Edition), 2013

I still think she is pregnant or eat something wrong (nausea), and there is another reason fr that sting, not palytoxin.

 

[mcpeachy]

I still think she is pregnant or eat something wrong (nausea), and there is another reason fr that sting, not palytoxin.

No, thank you for your concern, but not pregnant. I've actually been sick for the past few days. About 2 days after my nausea/coral touch I was quite sick and I've been quite sick since then. I don't think it was the coral. I think I started feeling nauseous because I was coming down with something. I have Bronchitis or something like that and a ton of nausea/vomiting now. I don't think corals have anything to do with mucous in the lungs, correct?

 

[A. grandis]

Many people have described the symptoms of palytoxin (I'm referring specifically to zoanthids, not corals) similar to "cold" symptoms. Lower back pain and bodyache seems to be common. Do a search and try to understand more about it. Normally it happens when you cut the colony or inhale fumes from them. In some cases, specially with true Palythoa spp., people could have many symptoms after simply putting hands in the tank.
It is very unlikely that the Zoanthus sp. you have could cause such symptoms just because you touched.
You should go to a doctor to check that out anyways!
Good luck!

 

[Cthulhu4change]

I have zoa's and palythoas I'm my tank. I can attest to sensitivity to palytoxins, I didn't know anything about it and handled them with my bare hands during transport and ended up in the ER. It's like a flushed feeling then sever mental confusion followed by nausea and body pain. Luckily I'm fine and just respect my tank more.

 

[littlebigreef]

Incidental contact isn’t enough to do anything, even if you are more sensitive (which some people really are). I’ve made tens of thousands of zoa frags over the years. The only time you need to worry is when you’re working with the big palys, have open wounds/cuts, or you get it on your mucus membranes or in your eyes. If you’re still concerned you should contact a physician.