Dont even think about it!

[Nor'easter Reefer]

Well this may ruffle a few feathers but let's try this out.

Scene:

A new, soon to be reefer approaches you and says "Hi, i'm a soon to be reefer!" And asks what equipment, rock, sand, livestock etc he should get.

You go through the usual telling them the brands you like, the equipment you consider essential, and are about to part ways, but at the last second you realize, theres one specific thing that you think is a massive setback/distraction/waste of resources/etc purchase for new reefers, and you tell them to hold up a second.. Maybe its not necessarily bad, but it sure doesnt deserve to be on their new shopping list. At least not yet.

What is that one specific thing? Is it equipment? Gear? Live stock?

I think for me it would be going entirely barren of life on the rock and sand. I would still suggest a observational QT of it, but I think the addition of at least some real live rock and sand is a massive benefit, and that starting with pure dry rock/sand is detrimental to setting a brand new reefer up for a good successful reef tank and getting them hooked on the reef keeping hobby. At least until they can learn some solid foundational experience and the patience that reef keeping requires.

 

[overhead]

Smaller is not always cheaper and certainly is not easier. That is probably not specific as far as equipment goes, but it is what came to mind with my limited experience. Also, a reef tank is not a gold fish bowl, it requires the same effort, and maybe more or different effort than owning a difficult/challenging dog, for example.

 

[Nor'easter Reefer]

Smaller is not always cheaper and certainly is not easier. That is probably not specific as far as equipment goes, but it is what came to mind with my limited experience. Also, a reef tank is not a gold fish bowl, it requires the same effort, and maybe more or different effort than owning a difficult/challenging dog, for example.

I'd say thats very valid, and I would agree. Thats definitely a solid word of advice! That advice is something I found on here way back when and convinced my wife I needed the bigger tank

 

[overhead]

I'd say thats very valid, and I would agree. Thats definitely a solid word of advice! That advice is something I found on here way back when and convinced my wife I needed the bigger tank

I just set up my third "small" tank, a 40 gallon breeder. So, I guess I don't listen to my own advice. It is funny, a couple of people at work asked me about one of my tanks because it sits behind my desk and shows up on video calls, my advice has just been "don't". Same thing I tell people about getting a pilots certificate, it is expensive and hard. People that really want to do it will and will ask me more questions, those that don't probably should not.

 

[Nor'easter Reefer]

I just set up my third "small" tank, a 40 gallon breeder. So, I guess I don't listen to my own advice. It is funny, a couple of people at work asked me about one of my tanks because it sits behind my desk and shows up on video calls, my advice has just been "don't". Same thing I tell people about getting a pilots certificate, it is expensive and hard. People that really want to do it will and will ask me more questions, those that don't probably should not.

My dad's super frugal. Like, would drive 15 minutes back into town if he was overcharged by $5 hes been talking about starting a reef tank but I told him "remember when i told you my chromis cost $15 and you freaked out at how expensive that was? Thats a cheap fish. Your not made for saltwater "

he has a freshwater tank now lol

 

[overhead]

My dad's super frugal. Like, would drive 15 minutes back into town if he was overcharged by $5 hes been talking about starting a reef tank but I told him "remember when i told you my chromis cost $15 and you freaked out at how expensive that was? Thats a cheap fish. Your not made for saltwater "

he has a freshwater tank now lol

All I have achieved with my tanks as far as my parents go is making my Mom feel guilty for eating conch fritters after sending her videos of my conch. She said "they don't look like that fried". Which is true. In fairness conch fritters are good.

 

[kevgib67]

Thanks Mike, you helped me see the light! I’m tearing my tank down today.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

starting with pure dry rock/sand is detrimental to setting a brand new reefer up for a good successful reef tank and getting them hooked on the reef keeping hobby. At least until they can learn some solid foundational experience and the patience that reef keeping requires.

FYI, some countries just don't have access to live rocks, its not allowed to be imported in Canada. I've built a few tanks in my time in the hobby, to me the 'uglies' are more about reefer inexperience and lack of knowledge. Its very easy to build a successful tank with dry rock and have no ugly stage at all, if you know how.

 

[RobynR]

My dad's super frugal. Like, would drive 15 minutes back into town if he was overcharged by $5 hes been talking about starting a reef tank but I told him "remember when i told you my chromis cost $15 and you freaked out at how expensive that was? Thats a cheap fish. Your not made for saltwater "

he has a freshwater tank now lol

All I have achieved with my tanks as far as my parents go is making my Mom feel guilty for eating conch fritters after sending her videos of my conch. She said "they don't look like that fried". Which is true. In fairness conch fritters are good.

My mom said the exact same thing when she came and saw mine!!!

 

[RobynR]

starting with pure dry rock/sand is detrimental to setting a brand new reefer up for a good successful reef tank and getting them hooked on the reef keeping hobby. At least until they can learn some solid foundational experience and the patience that reef keeping requires.

FYI, some countries just don't have access to live rocks, its not allowed to be imported in Canada. I've built a few tanks in my time in the hobby, to me the 'uglies' are more about reefer inexperience and lack of knowledge. Its very easy to build a successful tank with dry rock and have no ugly stage at all, if you know how.

We have real live rock in Vancouver BC. It regularly gets imported from Fiji, Tonga, etc. I believe it is mariculture now, but no question it is real. I just got some with some beautiful blue/green porites on it, a tonne of lovely hitchhikers, and a few not so lovely hitchhikers.

I agree with starting with live rock. We do not have access to real live sand here from what I’ve found, just the sand in bags with bacterial culture envelopes, that they call live sand.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

We have real live rock in Vancouver BC. It regularly gets imported from Fiji, Tonga, etc. I believe it is mariculture now, but no question it is real. I just got some with some beautiful blue/green porites on it, a tonne of lovely hitchhikers, and a few not so lovely hitchhikers.

I agree with starting with live rock. We do not have access to real live sand here from what I’ve found, just the sand in bags with bacterial culture envelopes, that they call live sand.

Hi, can you share what store? I've never been able to find it.

 

[RobynR]

We have real live rock in Vancouver BC. It regularly gets imported from Fiji, Tonga, etc. I believe it is mariculture now, but no question it is real. I just got some with some beautiful blue/green porites on it, a tonne of lovely hitchhikers, and a few not so lovely hitchhikers.

I agree with starting with live rock. We do not have access to real live sand here from what I’ve found, just the sand in bags with bacterial culture envelopes, that they call live sand.

Hi, can you share what store? I've never been able to find it.

J&L Aquatics :)

 

[Nor'easter Reefer]

FYI, some countries just don't have access to live rocks, its not allowed to be imported in Canada. I've built a few tanks in my time in the hobby, to me the 'uglies' are more about reefer inexperience and lack of knowledge. Its very easy to build a successful tank with dry rock and have no ugly stage at all, if you know how.

Im not saying it cant be done, but as you said, lack of reefer experience and knowledge. I would say getting some live rock from a friend's sump or a LFS is the better option than 100% base dry rock for a newbie. Doesn't have to be actual rock imported from the ocean.

 

[Nor'easter Reefer]

Thanks Mike, you helped me see the light! I’m tearing my tank down today.

Finally. I'll teach you how to start it right!

 

[kevgib67]

Finally. I'll teach you how to start it right!

Please do Mike!

 

[Nor'easter Reefer]

Please do Mike!

I thought you bought some TBS rock or sand though?

 

[kevgib67]

Ya all the live rock from my 32g , threw out the sand an the rest is live rock and sand from TBS. No dry anything in my tank. The way I’ve been doing it since the mid 90’s.

 

[Uncle99]

Only used live rock once in dozens of systems over 40 years.

Used LR once and ended up with gorilla craps, 3 mantis shrimp and Aptasia which took 3 years to eradicate.

The “life” seed I need comes on every coral added to the system.

Not much uglies when chemistry is on point, it’s part of the process.

 

[keagan]

Hi, can you share what store? I've never been able to find it.

This is JL aquatics Indonesian live rock after shipping from B.C to N.S in the middle of February back in 2020. I was impressed but it's some expensive 20 bucks a pound now and no free shipping. FedEx is expensive so expect to pay a lot if you ship it.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

This is JL aquatics Indonesian live rock after shipping from B.C to N.S in the middle of February back in 2020. I was impressed but it's some expensive 20 bucks a pound now and no free shipping. FedEx is expensive so expect to pay a lot if you ship it.

Thanks for the info, its not listed on their website so I'll call them later. My bad, Big Al's told me during covid time they weren't allowed to import live rocks, so I took it to mean it wasn't allowed, but maybe it was just them. Doing some googling this morning, it is legal but apparently not easy.