Dosing phospates no results

[marcogig]

Hi all,
I am dosing PO4 because the level was consistently zero and dinos appeared.
I am losing some sps and lps, so I'm trying to stabilize nutrients. No3 from 0 are now 2.5 and PO4 are still 0 (hanna ULR). I'm dosing Aquaforest PO4 PLUS 1,3ml for 7 days. What is the right strategy in your opinion to reach a minimum value? Increase the dose or other?
I have a RS 170G2 started about 2 years ago.

Thank you

 

[Saltyreef]

Keep it steady what you are doing. Something is consuming it and i have a feeling its your LR and substrate. A member here gave a good anology of "the glass ketchup bottle effect".
Nothing, nothing, nothing, BOOM....theres all the ketchup.....

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I am not familiar with the concentration of that product.

How much in ppm are you dosing daily?

It can take a huge amount to overcome rock and sand binding.

 

[Dan_P]

I am not familiar with the concentration of that product.

How much in ppm are you dosing daily?

It can take a huge amount to overcome rock and sand binding.

I suspect microalgae consumption is also a consumer of phosphate and that it might remove the same amount that aragonite binds. To bad the op has coral, otherwise we could see if the phosphate consumption declines with no illumination

 

[komachi253874]

It's possible your microorganisms have been chronically starved, resulting in a low population size. When nutrients are reintroduced, microbial reproduction consumes a large amount of phosphate. Additionally, under prolonged low nutrient conditions, live rock and sand will release solidified phosphate, which they will also absorb until saturation. I once added 0.06 ppm of phosphate daily for two consecutive months before the Hanna774 reading was no longer zero.

 

[JonasRoman]

Hi all,
I am dosing PO4 because the level was consistently zero and dinos appeared.
I am losing some sps and lps, so I'm trying to stabilize nutrients. No3 from 0 are now 2.5 and PO4 are still 0 (hanna ULR). I'm dosing Aquaforest PO4 PLUS 1,3ml for 7 days. What is the right strategy in your opinion to reach a minimum value? Increase the dose or other?
I have a RS 170G2 started about 2 years ago.

Thank you

Problem with dosing PO4 is that your Dino will love it. Dino is not because of low po4, rather low po4 is a consequence of dino as dino eats a lot of po4 and all po4 you now will dose is just going straight to the dinos (and other algue aswell). I have showed with some experiments how much po4 dino can consume, and also release when they are dying. I would in your situation forget po4 for a while and focus in manage the dino. Once dino is dead the po4 will raise by itself. And for dino its only one good way, and thats black out + UVC together for 3 days. After that black out, continue with UVC for another 2 days, then quit. Now dose some bacteria. PO4 will now be raised , quite much if you had a lot of dino. Just let it be, po4 will go back to a steady state level within a few days.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Problem with dosing PO4 is that your Dino will love it. Dino is not because of low po4, rather low po4 is a consequence of dino as dino eats a lot of po4 and all po4 you now will dose is just going straight to the dinos (and other algue aswell).

Maybe. Others have different opinions and experiences.

 

[marcogig]

I am not familiar with the concentration of that product.

How much in ppm are you dosing daily?

It can take a huge amount to overcome rock and sand binding.

1ml rise 0,01 in 100l, I have 130l

 

[marcogig]

Problem with dosing PO4 is that your Dino will love it. Dino is not because of low po4, rather low po4 is a consequence of dino as dino eats a lot of po4 and all po4 you now will dose is just going straight to the dinos (and other algue aswell). I have showed with some experiments how much po4 dino can consume, and also release when they are dying. I would in your situation forget po4 for a while and focus in manage the dino. Once dino is dead the po4 will raise by itself. And for dino its only one good way, and thats black out + UVC together for 3 days. After that black out, continue with UVC for another 2 days, then quit. Now dose some bacteria. PO4 will now be raised , quite much if you had a lot of dino. Just let it be, po4 will go back to a steady state level within a few days.

Problem with dosing PO4 is that your Dino will love it. Dino is not because of low po4, rather low po4 is a consequence of dino as dino eats a lot of po4 and all po4 you now will dose is just going straight to the dinos (and other algue aswell). I have showed with some experiments how much po4 dino can consume, and also release when they are dying. I would in your situation forget po4 for a while and focus in manage the dino. Once dino is dead the po4 will raise by itself. And for dino its only one good way, and thats black out + UVC together for 3 days. After that black out, continue with UVC for another 2 days, then quit. Now dose some bacteria. PO4 will now be raised , quite much if you had a lot of dino. Just let it be, po4 will go back to a steady state level within a few days.

Dino are near to disappear, so I don't think they are the cause, but they are dependent. I am waiting icp (tomorrow the sample will arrive in polony)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

1ml rise 0,01 in 100l, I have 130l

So 1.3 mL per day is a very low dose. I’d up it a lot if it’s not coming on scale.

 

[marcogig]

So 1.3 mL per day is a very low dose. I’d up it a lot if it’s not coming on scale.

I switched to 2ml three days ago, and still nothing. The package says not to exceed a daily increase of 0.01...

 

[FlameangelLover]

Keep it steady what you are doing. Something is consuming it and i have a feeling its your LR and substrate. A member here gave a good anology of "the glass ketchup bottle effect".
Nothing, nothing, nothing, BOOM....theres all the ketchup.....

This is the best advice. Please don’t be like me and up the dosage then out of nowhere now you have way to much! Keep it steady for atleast a month and boom it’ll all happen at once

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I switched to 2ml three days ago, and still nothing. The package says not to exceed a daily increase of 0.01...

Well, I advise ignoring that recommendation. Rock can take up huge amounts. Assuming you are accurately measuring phospahte, adding 0.05 ppm at once is fine, since even if it ALL stayed in the water, you'd be at the bottom end of my recommended levels:


https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/randy’s-thoughts-on-nutrient-target-ranges.1087/
4. What targets seem reasonable? Of course, that depends on all the other factors at play, such as types of corals, availability of ammonia, particulate foods, etc. However, for a mature mixed reef, this would be how I personally would run it:

• Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
• Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
• Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
• Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

This is the best advice. Please don’t be like me and up the dosage then out of nowhere now you have way to much! Keep it steady for atleast a month and boom it’ll all happen at once

I don't agree, and think the "boom" is not something that happens if measuring accurately and frequently, but I respect that others have different opinions on "what to do" questions. :)

 

[marcogig]

In addition I'm noting an increment in KH 0.4 in 7 days (no balling, no changes in water level)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

That’s a pretty small change and may be test error. If it keeps rising, there are ways to reduce alk, if needed.

 

[JBNY]

I would increase the dose substantially, but do it in measured steps instead of continuing with the same small amount and hoping it eventually shows up.

Test at the same time each day and keep increasing the dose until PO4 becomes consistently measurable. Once it starts holding, stop or cut the dose for a day and see how quickly it drops. That drawdown will give you a much better idea of what the tank is actually using and where the maintenance dose needs to be.

As Randy mentioned, new rock and sand can bind a lot of phosphate. The tank is also using phosphate biologically at the same time, so it isn't just a matter of filling the rock until one day it suddenly stops taking any.

This is basically how I handled my tank when it was new about 10 months ago. I dosed through the initial drawdown until PO4 started holding, then backed off and watched where the tank settled.

 

[BryanM]

You could also consider going the DIY route. I was dosing NeoNitro for nitrates, and it didn't work that well, but the DIY sodium nitrate recipe works inredibly well.

There is one here for phosphate as well:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-phosphate-dosing-recipe.1109919/

 

[JonasRoman]

Maybe. Others have different opinions and experiences.

I know, this is mine:-)