Dosing Sodium Bicarbonate Didnt Raise Alk

[FishRFriends!=Food]

Hey all,

Per the BRS calculator, for my 20 Gallon tank which has an Alk of 6.7 based on a hanna marine master test, I added 11ml of sodium bicarbonate to raise it to 7.7. I tested again 3 hours later and it only raised to 6.9, which could just be a testing error.

Could someone explain why the Alk barely changed, if at all?

 

[Pistondog]

Hey all,

Per the BRS calculator, for my 20 Gallon tank which has an Alk of 6.7 based on a hanna marine master test, I added 11ml of sodium bicarbonate to raise it to 7.7. I tested again 3 hours later and it only raised to 6.9, which could just be a testing error.

Could someone explain why the Alk barely changed, if at all?

Using brs calc
I get 28 ml of liquid sodium bicarb, or 0.5 tsp dry, which sounds about right.
Where did you get 11ml.

 

[FishRFriends!=Food]

Using brs calc
I get 28 ml of liquid sodium bicarb, or 0.5 tsp dry, which sounds about right.
Where did you get 11ml.

Looks like it defaulted back to the Liquid soda ashe without me noticing. I added the additional 17ml, I'll test again tomorrow to see if it makes up the difference.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What exactly are you dosing?

Assuming it is my DIY recipe #2, then 11 mL will boost alk by 0.4 dKH, and that may be undetectable if the tank uses any of that before you test again.

 

[piranhaman00]

You need to make known solutions and dose according to math not brs calculator. Use Randy’s recipes for stock solutions and ask if you need help with dosing mayh

 

[FishRFriends!=Food]

What exactly are you dosing?

Assuming it is my DIY recipe #2, then 11 mL will boost alk by 0.4 dKH, and that may be undetectable if the tank uses any of that before you test again.

I purchased the BRS Pharma Kalkwasser starter package. I used the included Sodium Bicarbonate and mixed per their instructions to make a 1 Gallon mixture. Calculated (incorrectly originally) per the BRS calculator to raise Alk from 6.7 to 7.7.

 

[Borat]

Exciting chemical experimentation with marine pets!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I purchased the BRS Pharma Kalkwasser starter package. I used the included Sodium Bicarbonate and mixed per their instructions to make a 1 Gallon mixture. Calculated (incorrectly originally) per the BRS calculator to raise Alk from 6.7 to 7.7.

While their calculator is likely accurate, I'd recommend this one for general use:

Reef Chemistry Calculator

BRS generally uses my recipes for items like this, and the bicarbonate recipe is called by DIY Recipe #2, assuming it was close to this:

An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Recipe #2, Part 2: The Alkalinity Part

Dissolve 297 grams of baking soda (about 1 1/8 cups) in enough water to make 1 gallon total. This dissolution may require a fair amount of mixing. Warming it speeds dissolution. This solution will contain about 950 meq/L of alkalinity (2660 dKH). As mentioned earlier, Arm & Hammer is a fine brand of baking soda to use in these recipes. Be sure to NOT use baking powder. Baking powder is a different material that often has phosphate as a main ingredient.

 

[FishRFriends!=Food]

While their calculator is likely accurate, I'd recommend this one for general use:

Reef Chemistry Calculator

BRS generally uses my recipes for items like this, and the bicarbonate recipe is called by DIY Recipe #2, assuming it was close to this:

An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Recipe #2, Part 2: The Alkalinity Part

Dissolve 297 grams of baking soda (about 1 1/8 cups) in enough water to make 1 gallon total. This dissolution may require a fair amount of mixing. Warming it speeds dissolution. This solution will contain about 950 meq/L of alkalinity (2660 dKH). As mentioned earlier, Arm & Hammer is a fine brand of baking soda to use in these recipes. Be sure to NOT use baking powder. Baking powder is a different material that often has phosphate as a main ingredient.

Hey Randy,

Thanks I'll use your calculator moving forward. The mix I used and your 2 Part DIY look nearly identical, and the dosage provided is within 10% of what BRS listed.

Another concern Ive run into with both tanks is highly elevated calcium, 580 and 600+. Is there a relationship between low Alk and high calcium? Are there any articles you could point me to to help understand why this may be happening?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey Randy,

Thanks I'll use your calculator moving forward. The mix I used and your 2 Part DIY look nearly identical, and the dosage provided is within 10% of what BRS listed.

Another concern Ive run into with both tanks is highly elevated calcium, 580 and 600+. Is there a relationship between low Alk and high calcium? Are there any articles you could point me to to help understand why this may be happening?

Have you been adding calcium?

 

[FishRFriends!=Food]

Have you been adding calcium?

For 3-4 weeks I was adding a small Sealab no 28 cube, which lookingback on was completelyunnecessary. Beyond that I havent dosed any calcium, and since then Ive done 3-4 15٪ water changes with Instant Ocean Sea Salt. Is the Hanna Calcium tester reliable?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

For 3-4 weeks I was adding a small Sealab no 28 cube, which lookingback on was completelyunnecessary. Beyond that I havent dosed any calcium, and since then Ive done 3-4 15٪ water changes with Instant Ocean Sea Salt. Is the Hanna Calcium tester reliable?

Sealab will drive elements too high if you use more than the demand, but for now' I'd just leave it be.

The Hanna calcium tester is likely their worst design, IMO. It is freakishly sensitive to calcium in the blank. What did you use for the blank?

 

[FishRFriends!=Food]

Sealab will drive elements too high if you use more than the demand, but for now' I'd just leave it be.

The Hanna calcium tester is likely their worst design, IMO. It is freakishly sensitive to calcium in the blank. What did you use for the blank?

Hey Randy,

I'm not home to double check, but I believe this test calls for 10ml of distilled water. I rinse the test vials beforehand, and have a dedicated jug/pipette strictly for this test. A month or two ago I was testing at 450 or so, wasn't sure if there was something else that could be to blame.

Is there any clear signs that would confirm calcium is actually that high, and can it cause any significant issues?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey Randy,

I'm not home to double check, but I believe this test calls for 10ml of distilled water. I rinse the test vials beforehand, and have a dedicated jug/pipette strictly for this test. A month or two ago I was testing at 450 or so, wasn't sure if there was something else that could be to blame.

Is there any clear signs that would confirm calcium is actually that high, and can it cause any significant issues?

Distilled water should be suitable, if that is what you used.

Ro/DI at "0 ppm TDS" may not be, since it might possibly have some calcium in it, especially if the 0 ppm is not accurately measured by a cheapo TDS meter, or is actually higher than 0 ppm. In any case, a little calcium can be enough to mess with the accuracy.

 

[FishRFriends!=Food]

Distilled water should be suitable, if that is what you used.

Ro/DI at "0 ppm TDS" may not be, since it might possibly have some calcium in it, especially if the 0 ppm is not accurately measured by a cheapo TDS meter, or is actually higher than 0 ppm. In any case, a little calcium can be enough to mess with the accuracy.

Hey Randy,

Apologies I misspoke. It is infact rodi water from my 5 stage system. Do you recommend that I purchase a gallon jug of actual distilled water for this test? I was under the impression this water was the same thing as rodi, but that would make complete sense as to why the test is way off...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey Randy,

Apologies I misspoke. It is infact rodi water from my 5 stage system. Do you recommend that I purchase a gallon jug of actual distilled water for this test? I was under the impression this water was the same thing as rodi, but that would make complete sense as to why the test is way off...

For nearly all reefing purposes, RO/DI at 0 ppm TDS is perfect.

In reality, it might have less calcium than the distilled water, but you just can't easily know.

Getting a jug of distilled water is an appropriate precaution.

HOWEVER, calcium in the blank would lead to a low calcium test result, not a high one, so it isn't going to explain away your high calcium.

Other aspects of the test might be issues, such as scratched cuvettes, reagents aging, etc.

 

[FishRFriends!=Food]

For nearly all reefing purposes, RO/DI at 0 ppm TDS is perfect.

In reality, it might have less calcium than the distilled water, but you just can't easily know.

Getting a jug of distilled water is an appropriate precaution.

HOWEVER, calcium in the blank would lead to a low calcium test result, not a high one, so it isn't going to explain away your high calcium.

Other aspects of the test might be issues, such as scratched cuvettes, reagents aging, etc.

Hey Randy,

I'll check over all testing equipment when I get home, and I already have new reagents on the way to verify if thats the issue.

The rodi system is less than 3 months old and tests a 1tds in, 0 out. Like I said before I didnt use to have any issues with calcium, would this lean towards bad reagents? I havent changed any other input/additives to the system since when it was lower.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey Randy,

I'll check over all testing equipment when I get home, and I already have new reagents on the way to verify if thats the issue.

The rodi system is less than 3 months old and tests a 1tds in, 0 out. Like I said before I didnt use to have any issues with calcium, would this lean towards bad reagents? I havent changed any other input/additives to the system since when it was lower.

I don't know whether the calcium values are likely real or test error.

Try the kit on some new salt water.

Double check salinity as well.

 

[hexcolor reef]

Use a PH booster that has hydroxyl in it. They have ones on the market that won’t push PH above 8.3 but will raise Alk

 

[hexcolor reef]

Is there a relationship between low Alk and high calcium? Are there any articles you could point me to to help understand why this may be happening?

Calcium and Alk are tied to each other. When your Alk is low calcium will raise and when Alk is high calcium could be lower. Both can be elevated at the same time as well.
I mentioned above that using a PH booster with hydroxyl will keep your Alk stable