Dwarf Lionfish Quarantine

[marcmen]

Hi all, I have read so much conflicting information about how to QT Dwarf Lionfish. Some say you cannot use Copper (Copper Power) on them, and others say it is safe. Most of these threads mention Lionfish in passing without a specific thread on them.

Has anyone here used copper on Lionfish before? If you have QT'd lionfish, what was your approach?

 

[lion king]

If you use copper they will die, either during treatment or afterwards. People always fail to mention when they die afterwards, maybe because they don't connect it to the copper, or maybe because I've warned them and they don't listen. I've dissected dozens of lions hobbyists have brought me from qt tanks with copper, or those that have been treated at some some point. Copper has a devastating effect on the liver of lions and many other species. I've found livers ruptured and even liquefied. Damage will occur and isn't always immediate death, but the damage is done and at some point they will have liver failure, usually sooner than later.

A healthy lion in good water quality and fed a healthy diet will be very resistant to any protazoan disease. They will shed their outermost layer and rid themselves of any attack. It is completely unnecessary to treat a lion with copper. Because of their shedding ability, a healthy unaffected lion will not transfer a protazoan disease to the display. Only lions in poor health or poor conditions will be at risk.

 

[marcmen]

If you use copper they will die, either during treatment or afterwards. People always fail to mention when they die afterwards, maybe because they don't connect it to the copper, or maybe because I've warned them and they don't listen. I've dissected dozens of lions hobbyists have brought me from qt tanks with copper, or those that have been treated at some some point. Copper has a devastating effect on the liver of lions and many other species. I've found livers ruptured and even liquefied. Damage will occur and isn't always immediate death, but the damage is done and at some point they will have liver failure, usually sooner than later.

A healthy lion in good water quality and fed a healthy diet will be very resistant to any protazoan disease. They will shed their outermost layer and rid themselves of any attack. It is completely unnecessary to treat a lion with copper. Because of their shedding ability, a healthy unaffected lion will not transfer a protazoan disease to the display. Only lions in poor health or poor conditions will be at risk.

Thank you so much for this information. I appreciate the response and the explanation.

 

[ctopherl]

If you use copper they will die, either during treatment or afterwards. People always fail to mention when they die afterwards, maybe because they don't connect it to the copper, or maybe because I've warned them and they don't listen. I've dissected dozens of lions hobbyists have brought me from qt tanks with copper, or those that have been treated at some some point. Copper has a devastating effect on the liver of lions and many other species. I've found livers ruptured and even liquefied. Damage will occur and isn't always immediate death, but the damage is done and at some point they will have liver failure, usually sooner than later.

A healthy lion in good water quality and fed a healthy diet will be very resistant to any protazoan disease. They will shed their outermost layer and rid themselves of any attack. It is completely unnecessary to treat a lion with copper. Because of their shedding ability, a healthy unaffected lion will not transfer a protazoan disease to the display. Only lions in poor health or poor conditions will be at risk.

What is your recommended QT strategy for a lion then in that case?

Also, have you kept dwarf lions with tangs? Is there risk of the tangs nipping at the lion? I would like a dwarf lion for my tank but will have a hippo, yellow, purple and powder blue tang in there as well.

 

[lion king]

Other than purples and powders having their own issues with aggression, there is usually no issue with lions and tangs.

If you have experience you can do a 4 observation. Lions come in with internal parasites frequently and honestly, thats your biggest concern. Offer live food right away and if they don't eat, treat right away with general cure or fritz paracleanse. Any other treatments can be risky and should be done as last resort, as with any use of antibiotics for any reason. You can observe for any signs of internal parasites or just treat prophylactically, metro and prazi are the only 2 drugs I find 100% safe for lions, be mindful of displacement and do not overdose. Metro and prazi are the active ingredients in general cure and paracleanse, and cove the widest range of worms and parasites.

Your observation will also allow you time to establish their eating routine. Please click my name and "find all threads" for any questions regarding feeding. Dwarf and medium bodied lions will almost always need to be fed live food initially and have a very slim chance of long term success if live foods are not included in their diets.

 

[ctopherl]

Other than purples and powders having their own issues with aggression, there is usually no issue with lions and tangs.

If you have experience you can do a 4 observation. Lions come in with internal parasites frequently and honestly, thats your biggest concern. Offer live food right away and if they don't eat, treat right away with general cure or fritz paracleanse. Any other treatments can be risky and should be done as last resort, as with any use of antibiotics for any reason. You can observe for any signs of internal parasites or just treat prophylactically, metro and prazi are the only 2 drugs I find 100% safe for lions, be mindful of displacement and do not overdose. Metro and prazi are the active ingredients in general cure and paracleanse, and cove the widest range of worms and parasites.

Your observation will also allow you time to establish their eating routine. Please click my name and "find all threads" for any questions regarding feeding. Dwarf and medium bodied lions will almost always need to be fed live food initially and have a very slim chance of long term success if live foods are not included in their diets.

Thanks! I may try the TTM to ensure there is no ich in addition to metro/prazi in that case.

Should I be worried about a dwarf lion eating bimac anthias or spotcinctus clowns? I know the rule is “how big they can open their mouths” but I don’t know how big that is. These species are on the larger side for anthias and clowns, relatively.

 

[lion king]

Thanks! I may try the TTM to ensure there is no ich in addition to metro/prazi in that case.

Should I be worried about a dwarf lion eating bimac anthias or spotcinctus clowns? I know the rule is “how big they can open their mouths” but I don’t know how big that is. These species are on the larger side for anthias and clowns, relatively.

On the extreme side I've seen my lions eat slender bodied fish about 2/3rds their own length, and more rounded bodied types close to half their own length.

 

[ctopherl]

On the extreme side I've seen my lions eat slender bodied fish about 2/3rds their own length, and more rounded bodied types close to half their own length.

Do you find its riskier to put those fish in the tank before or after the lion? And do you think they are stupid enough to try and eat a small puffer?

 

[lovethefishes]

What is your recommended QT strategy for a lion then in that case?

Also, have you kept dwarf lions with tangs? Is there risk of the tangs nipping at the lion? I would like a dwarf lion for my tank but will have a hippo, yellow, purple and powder blue tang in there as well.

Reference the tail nipping by tangs..... I have a dwarf zebra lionfish for almost 2 yrs now. Originally he was in a tank with a blue tang, one spot rabbitfish, four large green chromis and a black combs tooth blenny. I had to move the combs tooth because the lionfish would perch too close to the blenny's territory and the blenny took several chunks out of the the lionfish's tail. A couple months after it was growing back nicely, I observed the tang harassing the dzl and again he had a chunk missing out of his tail and back dorsal. I moved my lionfish to a different tank and returned the blenny. The dzl current roommates are a bicolored angel and a caramel clown. I am keeping a close eye on the clown.

 

[jasonrusso]

Other than purples and powders having their own issues with aggression, there is usually no issue with lions and tangs.

If you have experience you can do a 4 observation. Lions come in with internal parasites frequently and honestly, thats your biggest concern. Offer live food right away and if they don't eat, treat right away with general cure or fritz paracleanse. Any other treatments can be risky and should be done as last resort, as with any use of antibiotics for any reason. You can observe for any signs of internal parasites or just treat prophylactically, metro and prazi are the only 2 drugs I find 100% safe for lions, be mindful of displacement and do not overdose. Metro and prazi are the active ingredients in general cure and paracleanse, and cove the widest range of worms and parasites.

Your observation will also allow you time to establish their eating routine. Please click my name and "find all threads" for any questions regarding feeding. Dwarf and medium bodied lions will almost always need to be fed live food initially and have a very slim chance of long term success if live foods are not included in their diets.

I just got an antenatta on Saturday. He is still reserved but is eating live guppies and ghost shrimp. Would you still treat with GC? He is in his own QT right now and spends the day perched on a rock but comes right off when food is offered.

 

[lion king]

I just got an antenatta on Saturday. He is still reserved but is eating live guppies and ghost shrimp. Would you still treat with GC? He is in his own QT right now and spends the day perched on a rock but comes right off when food is offered.

I prefer to observe, as long he is eating there is no danger, and anytime you don't have to treat is best, but you will have time to act. Missing one meal is no big deal but if he goes off eating for a week, then treat immediately. If you see stringy poo, treat immediately. While cloudy eyes can be an indicator, not always, as they might just be shedding. But if not eating with cloudy eyes and lethargy, treat immediately. Also watch out for flukes, could be accompanied by swimming at the surface or hanging in the direct flow of a powerhead or high flow area, accompanied by going off feeding and maybe cloudy eyes. It all really does hinge on eating, just have gc or prazi, in the case of flukes, on hand and be prepared, and don't wait if you suspect issue. I have never seen any long term injuries so treating prophylactically wouldn't really be an issue, just make sure to dose to water volume and not tank size, the only issue I've ever seen was likely due to an overdose.

 

[jasonrusso]

I prefer to observe, as long he is eating there is no danger, and anytime you don't have to treat is best, but you will have time to act. Missing one meal is no big deal but if he goes off eating for a week, then treat immediately. If you see stringy poo, treat immediately. While cloudy eyes can be an indicator, not always, as they might just be shedding. But if not eating with cloudy eyes and lethargy, treat immediately. Also watch out for flukes, could be accompanied by swimming at the surface or hanging in the direct flow of a powerhead or high flow area, accompanied by going off feeding and maybe cloudy eyes. It all really does hinge on eating, just have gc or prazi, in the case of flukes, on hand and be prepared, and don't wait if you suspect issue. I have never seen any long term injuries so treating prophylactically wouldn't really be an issue, just make sure to dose to water volume and not tank size, the only issue I've ever seen was likely due to an overdose.

He ate the first day, and a couple times since. I am probably going to wait and see. Do you dose according to the package or the recommended dose here. Two doses spread 5 days apart

 

[lion king]

He ate the first day, and a couple times since. I am probably going to wait and see. Do you dose according to the package or the recommended dose here. Two doses spread 5 days apart

Yes I dose per package instructions