Effects of live sand & mud on the microbial communities in my tanks (updated with new data)

[tripdad]

Live mud added in to two tanks today, one reef and one Fowler. Both are healthy but have some cyanobacteria present. We shall see what transpires. I have added this because both tanks were dry rock starts and I just feel they are missing a beat so to speak. Nothing bad, just not flourishing.

 

[drawman]

I have some sand and mud on order here. Plan is to put them in containers in my sump and attempt to fill my sump up with as much rock as I can. Here is wishing I had a much larger sump!

 

[Mark]

So I got my microbiome test results. It looks like my tank does contain 2 of the 4 SCTLD(Stony Coral Tissue Loss Disease)-associated bacteria, with Fusibacter being the one that is particularly high density. I also have the parasitic bacteria, A. rohweri, which is suspected for zapping energy/growth from corals. It's my belief that the SCTLD related bacteria are what targeted some of my LPS in the posts I made in this thread.

I do want to say, while the timing does argue for the Keys sand being the introduction, I cannot validate this definitively. I also should state that I added the sand haphazardly to the tank, and my corals were dusted in it. Maybe the results would have been better if I had done this carefully in a sump with no flow.

As far as what I intend to do next? Well the mortality did stop. I've been doing water changes, and still running my UV. I don't intend to treat the tank with doxy or any other antibiotic. I feel like I should just leave it alone. I did do the Cyano treatment a couple weeks ago, and perhaps that helps treat these bacteria some as well.

 

[drawman]

So I got my microbiome test results. It looks like my tank does contain 2 of the 4 SCTLD(Stony Coral Tissue Loss Disease)-associated bacteria, with Fusibacter being the one that is particularly high density. I also have the parasitic bacteria, A. rohweri, which is suspected for zapping energy/growth from corals. It's my belief that the SCTLD related bacteria are what targeted some of my LPS in the posts I made in this thread.

I do want to say, while the timing does argue for the Keys sand being the introduction, I cannot validate this definitively. I also should state that I added the sand haphazardly to the tank, and my corals were dusted in it. Maybe the results would have been better if I had done this carefully in a sump with no flow.

As far as what I intend to do next? Well the mortality did stop. I've been doing water changes, and still running my UV. I don't intend to treat the tank with doxy or any other antibiotic. I feel like I should just leave it alone. I did do the Cyano treatment a couple weeks ago, and perhaps that helps treat these bacteria some as well.

It seems like your tank was overall pretty well off before the introduction correct? I wonder if you had a well established bacteria population that made the introduction less problematic. Makes me a little more cautious on introducing my order I will say.

 

[Mark]

It seems like your tank was overall pretty well off before the introduction correct? I wonder if you had a well established bacteria population that made the introduction less problematic. Makes me a little more cautious on introducing my order I will say.

Well, I did have some ups and downs. I got lax on water changes and had a salinity spike from 2-part dosing, that caused the loss of a few fish. And I had some Cyano and Dino woes due to nitrates bottoming out. But the tank did run quite well on autopilot for around 2 years. I'm back to tracking salinity and doing water changes to manage salinity increases, and turned a corner on the cyano/dino's.

Regarding the nitrates bottoming out, the microbiome test also indicated undetectable nitrite oxidizing bacteria. It seems the biomass of coral and algae were outcompeting the nitrifying bacteria. I wonder if that's why my nitrates are undetectable. Time to add more fish and feed more I guess.

I would still add the sand but maybe into a tupperware in the sump with the pump turned off for a few, if I were to do it again.

 

[Fourstars]

I think we all need to understand there are risks. This is the only issue I've seen so far, I suspect there may be other causes.

 

[drawman]

Well, I did have some ups and downs. I got lax on water changes and had a salinity spike from 2-part dosing, that caused the loss of a few fish. And I had some Cyano and Dino woes due to nitrates bottoming out. But the tank did run quite well on autopilot for around 2 years. I'm back to tracking salinity and doing water changes to manage salinity increases, and turned a corner on the cyano/dino's.

Regarding the nitrates bottoming out, the microbiome test also indicated undetectable nitrite oxidizing bacteria. It seems the biomass of coral and algae were outcompeting the nitrifying bacteria. I wonder if that's why my nitrates are undetectable. Time to add more fish and feed more I guess.

I would still add the sand but maybe into a tupperware in the sump with the pump turned off for a few, if I were to do it again.

That was my plan as well to add a small amount to a container with flow off. I've been dealing with dinos/cyano from the onset of the tank as well.

I think we all need to understand there are risks. This is the only issue I've seen so far, I suspect there may be other causes.

Zoanthid death? Have you seen anything positive as well?

 

[tripdad]

I'm 48 hours with mud in 2 tanks. In the Fowler I see no changes yet. In the mixed reef the only change is some of the cyano on the sandbed is turning brown. Don't know if it's connected or not. All other corals and fish seem unaffected. I have acro's, lps, zoas, gorgonians, urchins, snails, bivalves. Will keep watching.

 

[Fourstars]

Nothing related to bacterial infection, just corals battling. Everything has never looked better.

 

[kartrsu]

I'm so glad to have come across this thread. Thanks @taricha! I recently went through a very similar if not exact experience as @Mark.

My tank was battling amphidinium dinos and I decided to try adding biodiversity from Indo pacific sea farms (IPSF) using their live sand activator and wonder mud product. Introduced in the same manner with broadcast dumping of the stuff. That same day, all my LPS started expelling zooxanthellae, retracted, showing tissue loss, and not very happy. I thought maybe it was water parameter issue, but everything checked out. Ran a bunch of carbon and polyfilter to see if it was anything on my hands, but no progress. Did massive water changes but no difference.

After seeing the struggle for a couple more days, I moved all my LPS corals to another frag tank. The ones that were doing the worst were dipped in iodine for 15 mins at high concentration. About 3 weeks later, the corals have stabilized, but no where near their prior glory. My gold torch sat right below where I dumped the dust and it has not been the same. I also lost a pocillopora in the process that got RTN. Interestingly, all soft corals were totally fine.

I'm pretty certain that it is some sort of pathogenic bacteria that I introduced directly onto the corals. These are also fishless tanks so maybe the nitrifying bacteria were dwindling. I had to tone down my lights 50% or so to just get these guys to open. Now they are slowly recovering and the tissue recession has started to stop. I plan on dosing some Dr Tim's Eco Balance when I receive it today.

If the corals I have are still infected, is there anything else besides iodine that can knock these bad bacteria back? At this stage I wonder if an H2O2 dip would be helpful or just create more stress. How is your tank doing now @Mark?

 

[Mark]

@kartrsu,

Tanks is doing well, coral wise. I've had recent ups and downs with fish, but that's a different story. Water changes were a big help. Recently, some Dino's sprouted up again, so I bumped the temps back to 82 again which promptly took care of the species of Dino's that I seem to struggle with.

 

[Devaji]

WOW what a read! I am a big believer in biodiversity.

I am thinking about adding some of the FL. pets sand and mud to a new system I am setting up. but I would hate to add the coral eating bac, to a new tank.

anyone else have issues loosing corals?

question for @AquaBiomics you said this shipped USPS 3 day. think it would be OK to ship in the winter? guessing it would freeze. what that kill all the biodiversity that I am after?

 

[tripdad]

I had forgotten all about this thread. My tank went thru some unrelated to mud problems later in the fall that resulted in me re-starting from scratch. As far as the mud went I had a little period of maybe a week where I had some concern. Then the tank started to get back to it's old self(the mixed reef). The fowler was never changed that I could see. I never lost any acros or Lps. I did lose a gorgonian, but related to the intro of the mud, don't know.

 

[drawman]

WOW what a read! I am a big believer in biodiversity.

I am thinking about adding some of the FL. pets sand and mud to a new system I am setting up. but I would hate to add the coral eating bac, to a new tank.

anyone else have issues loosing corals?

question for @AquaBiomics you said this shipped USPS 3 day. think it would be OK to ship in the winter? guessing it would freeze. what that kill all the biodiversity that I am after?

Just an FYI I contacted him recently and I don't think he will have the "Keys" mud or sand until the Spring. I moved and let mine dry up unfortunately but will be ordering again once he gets more in stock.

 

[Reefahholic]

Just found this thread. IMO live sand and mud have some serious life. Not talking about sand in a bag. Sand and mud from the beach. I live 20 minutes away and will be grabbing some for my new build.

 

[Devaji]

Just found this thread. IMO live sand and mud have some serious life. Not talking about sand in a bag. Sand and mud from the beach. I live 20 minutes away and will be grabbing some for my new build.

I try to go to Thailand once a year. not the last 2 unfortunately tho. I wonder if I can bring back some mud. put it in a spa jar labeled mud. lol

 

[Reefahholic]

I would guess that having a diamond watchman goby would lower diversity in my tank?

They prey on the life in an established sandbed. A live sandbed that is setup properly (with the right critters) will become depleted if fish or inverts continually sift the sand which is exactly what diamond gobies and sand sifting starfish do. This usually applies to the fine sand-beds with sugar fine sand. Extra coarse sand 3.5 to 5+ grain size may not be as affected.

 

[Reefahholic]

I try to go to Thailand once a year. not the last 2 unfortunately tho. I wonder if I can bring back some mud. put it in a spa jar labeled mud. lol

That should work. The only thing they can do is take it. Make sure you get it on the beach side as the marsh or bay areas seem to have a lot less life. At least for what I’m looking for anyway. They are super heavy around the beach with rock structures like jetties. Yet you can find what looks to be the most incredible bay side spot and it’s almost like the life just disappears. There’s not many pods, worms, or any mud bugs. The is still obviously life, but it’s just a lot different. Even the crabs and snails are different. Maybe because the water is lower salinity in the bay and marsh.

Check out this video. This is the Gulf of Mexico on the Texas side. It’s still all connected with Florida, but our water has a lot of silt and it’s a lot more brown due to multiple rivers in dumping into the Gulf on this end, but let me tell you...it’s fun to go out there a look around. Everything is free.

 

[minus9]

Any updates from anyone here? I just got some live sand and mud from Florida Pets, hoping to add a little diversity, so we'll see?

 

[drawman]

Any updates from anyone here? I just got some live sand and mud from Florida Pets, hoping to add a little diversity, so we'll see?

You did? I may have to shoot them an email!