Electric power needs for a big build

[waltee1000]

I am planning a big 360 gallon reef aquarium build with a dedicated fish room that will house sump and frag tank. I have calculated that when I am all done will have approximately 8000 watts of equipment pluged in on a full loaded tank (which also includes dehumidifier, 1800w aquarium heater, lights....). I will have to be power it through 5 separate 20 amp circuits. I have enough space on the panel for the additional fuses. What I am not sure is if my 200 amp electric service will be enough to support the house needs + the aquarium or if I will have to upgrade to a 300 or 400 amp service. I understand that not all equipment will be active simultaneously but there is no easy way to tell the peak load for the tank. I checked the past electric billing statments which indicated we consumed maximum of around 2000 kwh of power in summer. However that dosen't tell what was our peak load during any period. Any one with big build or updates to home have any advice on peak consumption or on how to avoid circuit breaker overload? I plan to contact an electrician at a later date.

Few stats for a better idea
House size 3200 sqft
Additional space post basement completion 1200 sqft
House has central air conditioning, pool, jetted tub, double ovens, electric washer/dryer, 2 fridges, dishwasher and other appliances.
I have added up 600 amps of breakers on a 200 amp panel and small subpanel

 

[T-J]

Go Pack Go! (I'm originally from Wisconsin)
Also, welcome to R2R!

8000 watts??? That seems really high for some reason. For example, my 120g system peaks out at just under 400w in the middle of the day according to my Apex. Are you planning on running MH lamps or sending water from the basement to the first floor?

I'm not an electrician, but my biggest concern would be any spikes as equipment turns on. Once your return pump is on, it shouldn't be spiking at all. LED lights that ramp up slowly should also be smooth. A chiller kicking on could spike, just like an A/C. Perhaps some math where you add up everything in the house and see where you are at amperage wise? See if you go over the 200 amp limit if you had a bunch of stuff on at once?

Best of luck!

 

[waltee1000]

I may not use 8000 watt. It's just a worse case scenario I am planning for.

Skimmer (2 power outlets)
Skimmer Reef Octopus Regal 300INT heavy load 450 gallon DC pump 70W

Lights (Kessil a360we 90Wx10=900w)

Heater (3 outlets)
600W Titanium Heater Element - Bulk Reef Supply 600wattsx3=1800watts

Auto top off (2 outlets)
50wx2=100w

Recirculating pump(2 outlets)
Vectra L2 - Mobius Ready DC Return Pump (3100 GPH) - Ecotech Marine 150w
Backup pump Vectra M2 - Mobius Ready DC Return Pump (2000 GPH) - Ecotech Marine 96w

Gyers/Powerhead (6 outlets)
XF280 Gyre Pump with Controller (6000 GPH) - 80w×2=160w
EcoTech MP40wQD 5,000 gph 37 Watts 37Wx4=148W

Aquarium controller (1 outlets)
Alex controller + everything 100w

Pump for reactors (1 outlet)
Vectra S2 - Mobius Ready DC Return Pump (2000 GPH) - Ecotech Marine 96w

Dosing pump (2 outlets)
50w×2=100w

Chiller dedicated outlet (1 outlet)
8 Amps

Air pump (1 outlet)
$20w

Dehumidifier dedicated outlet (1 outlet)
8 Amps

Fan (2 outlet)
100w

Refigum light (2 outlets)
Kessil 90Wx2=180w)

Frag tank recirculating pump (1 outlet)
Vectra S2 - Mobius Ready DC Return Pump (1400 GPH) - Ecotech Marine 75w

Frag tank light (2 outlets)
Kessil a360we 90Wx2=180w

Frag tank powerhead/gyers (2 outlets)
Gyre XF330 Pump Kit with Controller (2350 GPH) - Maxspect 35w


Mixing station pump (2 outlets)
30wx2=60w

Mixing station powerhead (1 outlet)
30w

Mixing station heater (1 outlet)
300W Titanium Heater Element - Bulk Reef Supply 300w

Water change pump (1 outlet)
30w

RODI heater (1 outlet)
300W Titanium Heater Element - Bulk Reef Supply 300w

UV sterilizer (2 outlets)
Smart High Output UV 80 Watt - Pentair Aquatics 160W

Alage scrubber (2 outlets)
APIS-300 Algae Turf Scrubber - Foursquare Aquatics 250w


Ozone generator (1 outlet)
50w

Pump for reactors (4 outlets)
30wx4=120w
Carbon
GFO
Biopellet

Vent fan (1 outlet)
100w 300CFM

Auto feeder (1 outlet)
20w

This is all the power based equipment I could think off. I am sure I won't use some of it in conjunction to others like refugium and alage scrubber dosen't make sense together. Some pumps may be redundant. Just wanted to look into worse case scenario before I undertake something so large and the home inspector tell me sorry buddy I can't sign off on the changes. Or worse it works but the breaker triggers.

 

[Subsea]

I also think your numbers are elevated.

I see no problem with running a 100A sub panel in your fish room. How deep is your basement and what is ground temperature. For most reefers, lighting is the largest consumer of electricity. In your system design, 1800W dedicated to heat and and 8A times 120V equals 960W dedicated to cooling. So, 2760W are dedicated to temperature control of water that is equivalent to 3 tons of heat pump. If heating water is a major issue in a Greenbay , Wisconsin basement you should consider an energy efficient heat pump.

 

[waltee1000]

I also think your numbers are elevated.

I see no problem with running a 100A sub panel in your fish room. How deep is your basement and what is ground temperature. For most reefers, lighting is the largest consumer of electricity. In your system design, 1800W dedicated to heat and and 8A times 120V equals 960W dedicated to cooling. So, 2760W are dedicated to temperature control of water that is equivalent to 3 tons of heat pump. If heating water is a major issue in a Greenbay , Wisconsin basement you should consider an energy efficient heat pump.

Hi Subsea,

The basment remains around 10 degrees cooler than aboveground. I would say its 4 to 5ft lower on one side and 8ft on the other given that our lot is steeply sloped. We heat our house to 70 degrees. When I just checked few min ago the basment temp was reading 59 degrees. Not sold on chiller yet as the basment I believe won't get that hot but I still took that in consideration to make sure I have the capacity if ever needed. One thing I have learnt over a decade in reefing is what you strat with is not what you have 4 years later on the tank. So I wanted to account for everything possible. I would rather put money need to wire extra outlets than pulling extensions cords.

 

[T-J]

Hi Subsea,

The basment remains around 10 degrees cooler than aboveground. I would say its 4 to 5ft lower on one side and 8ft on the other given that our lot is steeply sloped. We heat our house to 70 degrees. When I just checked few min ago the basment temp was reading 59 degrees. Not sold on chiller yet as the basment I believe won't get that hot but I still took that in consideration to make sure I have the capacity if ever needed. One thing I have learnt over a decade in reefing is what you strat with is not what you have 4 years later on the tank. So I wanted to account for everything possible. I would rather put money need to wire extra outlets than pulling extensions cords.

When I live in Wisconsin, I had a basement sump and had to run a chiller due to my MH bulbs. So, it's not just environmental (ambient) heat we have to worry about.

 

[JoshH]

I'm thinking really we need to hammer down this list you have, as you mentioned you seem to have over thought some things here and have a lot of things that absolutely aren't needed on any build. Example...

Mixing station pump (2 outlets)
30wx2=60w

Mixing station powerhead (1 outlet) Don't need
30w

Mixing station heater (1 outlet)
300W Titanium Heater Element - Bulk Reef Supply 300w

Water change pump (1 outlet) Don't need
30w

RODI heater (1 outlet) Don't need
300W Titanium Heater Element - Bulk Reef Supply 300w

You also have pump for reactors, twice, are you planning on running two sets of manifolds?

Fan or chiller, I sincerely doubt you'll need both. Heat is probably your bigger issue

 

[nezw0001]

I guess I will be the outlier in the comments so far. I have built out three large tank setups and now finished a combined 1300gallon system. I agree with your desire to over plan. My recommendation is to have extra outlets, plan for extra power consumption, add extra breakers. I really sucks to need them and not have them or have to add them later - I had this situation on my current build.

I think your list is good. What if you want to add a QT tank later? That's another filter, heater, light. If you over plan, no problem. Things like that come up. Decide to add UV, algae scrubber, etc. it will be nice to have electrical capacity so you can without issue. I disagree with the DONT NEED listed in a prior comment. It will be nice to have those extra outlets.

Have you talked to an electrician? Are you going to do the electrical work yourself? I recommend engaging an electrician and getting their thoughts. You may be limited by your power supply line gauge as to what you can add for total panels but a 100-200A dedicated subpanel would be nice. I have a 400W service for my 450G reef/750FOWLR system.

 

[BlennyTime]

Keep in mind, temperature is usually more stable in a basement. So there aren’t going to be a lot of fluctuations in temperature you need to manage. I’d start with 2 heaters for failover in case of issues, and add extra heaters or a chiller from there if you need it to maintain temp. Also keep in mind, your heaters and chillers probably won’t be running at the same time, so no need to account for both.

Also, you probably won’t be running all the lights at 100%, so that should cut down some of the load as well.

There are definitely advantages to splitting the load across multiple circuits, in case one trips it doesn’t take out your whole setup. I run a 180 split over 3 household circuits, and haven’t had any issues with it overloading those circuits.

 

[waltee1000]

I guess I will be the outlier in the comments so far. I have built out three large tank setups and now finished a combined 1300gallon system. I agree with your desire to over plan. My recommendation is to have extra outlets, plan for extra power consumption, add extra breakers. I really sucks to need them and not have them or have to add them later - I had this situation on my current build.

I think your list is good. What if you want to add a QT tank later? That's another filter, heater, light. If you over plan, no problem. Things like that come up. Decide to add UV, algae scrubber, etc. it will be nice to have electrical capacity so you can without issue. I disagree with the DONT NEED listed in a prior comment. It will be nice to have those extra outlets.

Have you talked to an electrician? Are you going to do the electrical work yourself? I recommend engaging an electrician and getting their thoughts. You may be limited by your power supply line gauge as to what you can add for total panels but a 100-200A dedicated subpanel would be nice. I have a 400W service for my 450G reef/750FOWLR system.

Yes. My whole point is to check feasibility. It would suck to order a $5k tank and not able to run it. I did some rough load calculations and I think I maybe running in 100+ amps peak load during summer months with central air, dishwasher, dryer and oven running simultaneously. I plan to call the electric company and see if I can bump to 320v breaker box without having to pull new wire from the pole. Its underground so will be a fortune to upgrade if I need to replace the cabling.

One question I have is what's your electric consumption for that size tank?

 

[JoshH]

I disagree with the DONT NEED listed in a prior comment. It will be nice to have those extra outlets

So you think he needs to heat his RODI water? And needs extra powerheads in his mixing tank? I have NEVER seen anyone heat there RODI Water because it is an absolute waste of time and money. And an extra powerhead in the mixing tank? A properly designed mixing station needs one pump. That's it.

He's not talking about extra outlets at this point he's talking about total load his system will run. And therefor eliminating things that shouldn't or will never exist in a properly planned system is the point of all this.

I agree whole heartedly about planning for extras like a QT setup. But hammingering down what is actually needed and what isn't is part of the process and can drastically reduce unnecessary costs. Something that should be a focus when planning any build.

 

[Ls7corvete]

Seems like a lot but I have small tanks. Some things you listed are WAY over estimated, some things will not run at same time (heater wont run same time as chiller, dehum probably wont run with chiller, etc). Anything you can run DC will eliminate startup loads.

Anyways, I have a sense energy monitor, hopefully someone with a sense and similar sized system will come along.

Any plans for battery backup?

 

[waltee1000]

Seems like a lot but I have small tanks. Some things you listed are WAY over estimated, some things will not run at same time (heater wont run same time as chiller, dehum probably wont run with chiller, etc). Anything you can run DC will eliminate startup loads.

Anyways, I have a sense energy monitor, hopefully someone with a sense and similar sized system will come along.

Any plans for battery backup?

I plan to put battery only for the return pump. I believe water circulation is needed to support life more than anything. Rest can go for a few hours without any issues. Low temp upto 70 degrees won't be an issue. I have run my reef before at 74 long term. Just the coral grew little slower.

 

[JoshH]

I plan to put battery only for the return pump. I believe water circulation is needed to support life more than anything. Rest can go for a few hours without any issues. Low temp upto 70 degrees won't be an issue. I have run my reef before at 74 long term. Just the coral grew little slower.

You might be better off using a battery backup on a powerhead or two given there lower power draw. Just something to think about

 

[nezw0001]

So you think he needs to heat his RODI water? And needs extra powerheads in his mixing tank? I have NEVER seen anyone heat there RODI Water because it is an absolute waste of time and money. And an extra powerhead in the mixing tank? A properly designed mixing station needs one pump. That's it.

He's not talking about extra outlets at this point he's talking about total load his system will run. And therefor eliminating things that shouldn't or will never exist in a properly planned system is the point of all this.

I agree whole heartedly about planning for extras like a QT setup. But hammingering down what is actually needed and what isn't is part of the process and can drastically reduce unnecessary costs. Something that should be a focus when planning any build.

I assumed the plan would be to heat the new saltwater which is a good management practice.

I have extra pumps/powerheads in my mixing tank. I like that I can individually automate them via apex to run specific amount of times for the needed task. Plus it allows me to tightly stack my mixing tanks.

 

[JoshH]

I assumed the plan would be to heat the new saltwater which is a good management practice

Definitely good practice and why I didn't say the heater in the mixing tank was not needed. His list shows a heater in the saltwater bin AND the RODI bin.

I guess if automation is the name of the game I could see one extra pump or doser for AWC's. However, atleast in my mind, anything else is not needed at all . But it's definitely to each there own, no setup is 100% right or wrong, it's all about what works best for whoever is running it.

 

[nezw0001]

Yes. My whole point is to check feasibility. It would suck to order a $5k tank and not able to run it. I did some rough load calculations and I think I maybe running in 100+ amps peak load during summer months with central air, dishwasher, dryer and oven running simultaneously. I plan to call the electric company and see if I can bump to 320v breaker box without having to pull new wire from the pole. Its underground so will be a fortune to upgrade if I need to replace the cabling.

One question I have is what's your electric consumption for that size tank?

Totally agree. Over build. You never know what you may want to add in the future. Maybe a 90G cube OCTO tank??? Why in the world build infrastructure that barely meets your needs, especially with a large tank. I had to add two circuits and like 10-12 more outlets due to poor planning and adding things I wasn't expecting (high end anemone propagation system) and now the 750G FOWLR.

Regarding heating the RO water. I can see value in this when going through large volumes of water. I make 300 gallons at a time. The water coming out of the well is approximately 54 degrees. It isn't much warmer once it is through my RO system. If I pre warm it the salt dissolves much faster and can be ready to use faster. Don't need to do this very often but when there is a disaster and I need to do a big water change it comes in handy.

I once mapped out all my usage by device using a killAWatt and used this info to spread load out evenly across all the breakers but cant find it right now. My electricity bill is at the office but I think we average between 12-18KW per month for the whole house. I'll check actuals tomorrow at the office.

 

[CMMorgan]

I am planning a big 360 gallon reef aquarium build with a dedicated fish room that will house sump and frag tank. I have calculated that when I am all done will have approximately 8000 watts of equipment pluged in on a full loaded tank (which also includes dehumidifier, 1800w aquarium heater, lights....). I will have to be power it through 5 separate 20 amp circuits. I have enough space on the panel for the additional fuses. What I am not sure is if my 200 amp electric service will be enough to support the house needs + the aquarium or if I will have to upgrade to a 300 or 400 amp service. I understand that not all equipment will be active simultaneously but there is no easy way to tell the peak load for the tank. I checked the past electric billing statments which indicated we consumed maximum of around 2000 kwh of power in summer. However that dosen't tell what was our peak load during any period. Any one with big build or updates to home have any advice on peak consumption or on how to avoid circuit breaker overload? I plan to contact an electrician at a later date.

Few stats for a better idea
House size 3200 sqft
Additional space post basement completion 1200 sqft
House has central air conditioning, pool, jetted tub, double ovens, electric washer/dryer, 2 fridges, dishwasher and other appliances.
I have added up 600 amps of breakers on a 200 amp panel and small subpanel

Welcome to the fishy family! I would suggest talking to an electrician in your area that knows the codes. If you screw it up, you can burn your house down... not worth the risk.

 

[Ls7corvete]

Definitely good practice and why I didn't say the heater in the mixing tank was not needed. His list shows a heater in the saltwater bin AND the RODI bin.

I guess if automation is the name of the game I could see one extra pump or doser for AWC's. However, atleast in my mind, anything else is not needed at all . But it's definitely to each there own, no setup is 100% right or wrong, it's all about what works best for whoever is running it.

I think the better argument here isn't should he heat his rodi, the better argument is how much and how often is he going to be powering that heater if he chooses to use one.

 

[waltee1000]

Welcome to the fishy family! I would suggest talking to an electrician in your area that knows the codes. If you screw it up, you can burn your house down... not worth the risk.

Thanks. I have been using R2R for almost a decade but never registered as I also have a reef central account where i use to post often and now with FB group its more easy to connect. Yes. I plan to do that once I have nailed the final details.