Endy0430 - Issue with Item Sold

[Jay1982]

I bought an Apex 2016 from user @endy0430, thread can be found here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brand-new-apex.429757/

I received the item and immediately noticed that the unit was used. Here is a video of the units in question:

I contacted Endy, and in my initial message I gave him the benefit of the doubt thinking that he might have had multiple sales going on and sent me a used unit by accident. He replied saying no, the unit was new. He stated that he opened the unit to look at it but never removed it from the box. Endy then copy/pasted text from user @techhnyne. Looks like it was a post from a group buy at some point.

I opened a paypal dispute at this point because the information I received from the seller contradicted what I opened in the box. At this point I was following PayPal guidelines. In the dispute I asked for a refund. With the intention of returning the item. It was at this point where things went sideways. Endy challenged me on the legitimacy of my claim and stating that everything was brand new. He said he wouldn't refund me if the serial numbers did not match up and was upset that I asked for a refund without first returning the item.

We never got past the disagreement on whether this unit was new or used because he said that he did not see any wear on the item in the video I sent him and then accused me of trying to scam him. At this point I have not heard anything back from Endy and have asked paypal the mediate.

I then decided to test out the unit and I have one of the outlets that does not work. This was right as I was about file the dispute.

At this juncture, I know what I received. I know that instead of looking for a solution - fingers were pointed at me. Communication was hostile and when I asked him for the serial numbers of the unit he said he had (after sending him the serial numbers that I received) - he ignored me.

At the end of the day, I should have aborted the sale when he had asked me to send the money as a gift through paypal (photo of PM attached) as that should have been a red flag.

The dispute is currently pending with paypal. I can update the thread as need be. Endy, it would be nice if you could give your version of the situation so that you can help me understand how a used unit was shipped to me when you are adamant that you sent one over.

 

[Jay1982]

You are absolutely right. In the future I'll be sure to halt the sale. I thought it was an honest mistake by the seller - but seeing as how things have unfolded - yeah, not so much.

 

[Crabs McJones]

Reminder - Outside comments are not permitted in buyer/seller feedback threads.
This gives the buyer and the seller a chance to resolve any issues.

Also as a note, requesting money be sent via friends and family or as a gift is not permitted and is a violation of the marketplace TOS.
Thank you.

 

[Jay1982]

I've reached out to Endy to ask him to contribute to the thread. While I don't want to be the "look at everything he is saying, woe is me" type of guy. I feel that given the circumstances, it would be good to let other potential buyers know potential outcomes. He's cut off all communication after I put in the request, despite me trying to work with him on providing the serial number of the units. And he is now asked me to stop messaging him altogether. Outside of Paypal's resolution I don't think we'll be able to reach any type of understanding.

 

[Jay1982]

Got an update from Paypal. Based on the video and information I provided, they ruled in my favor. I offered to take the unit at a severely discounted price to use it for parts but Paypal said that Endy declined that option. I need to send the unit back at my own cost. This is in addition to the duties I paid so I have lost about 200 dollars on this whole transaction. It sucks, but lesson learned and shouldn't have given the seller the benefit of the doubt. Just happy that I didn't do the gift option like Endy wanted me to do.

 

[endy0430]

OK well now is my turn. I'm only doing this because I will not allow anybody to rub my name on the dirt like this guy is trying to do. Number 1 anybody can go check my build threads on here and will see that when I bought the Apex will match with the receipts. I never open the Apex to check it, it looked brand new to me once I got it that's why my post said brand new never open. I bought the APEX WiFi back in March of this year that was going to go in a Reefer 250 build I was doing and unfortunately I couldn't finish it due to work and time. I decided to sell it and buy a smaller tank I bought the Reefer 170.

So this guy asked me if I can ship to Canada I said I could if he would help with the shipping cost. Then he asked me to send the Apex as a gift so he doesn't get hit with customs charges so I decided to do the same and ask him to send paypal payment as a gift as well to avoid the 70 something dollars I had to pay on fees he didn't feel comfortable and right away I agreed with him and we proceeded with the sale. So I shipped Apex from the UPS store and marked as gift as he ask me to he then contacts me a few week later saying he cant except the Apex because they were charging him alot of money in customs and was going to refuse. He asked if 1 I wanted just to void sale and for me to refund him and unfortunately I had used the money to buy the other tank. We agreed for me to ship back the Apex thru USPS and do the same send as a gift. Once I received the Apex back I proceeded to ship him back the Apex. So I have taken a big hit twice already just on shipping but since an a agreement was made I always follow thru on my word.

Now when he receives Apex I received a message from him saying I sold him an used Apex and without a chance to try to figure out what happen he files a claim on me with Paypal. I explain to him a bought the Apex on a group buy on Reef2Reef. He wouldn't respond. Them he respond saying that he would agree to a resolution by keeping the Apex and me refunding him 650 dollars. LOL is what I said to him I said return my Apex and I will refund you your money and he wouldn't agree. So we left it to Paypal. I dont know what happen either he screwed me or I got screwed on the group buy but none the less I will be getting back the Apex and he will be getting back his money.

I will be posting recipients from the Apex and I also bought and Apex auto feeder from the same guy and I can tell you is brand new because I took it out the box and have checked it completely. Also you will see text messages between me and the seller of the Apex and how I asked him to put a paper with my name on it to make sure I wasn't getting screwed. I been in this hobby over 20 something years selling and buying on here and Reef Central and have never experienced nothing like this. Just like I told the buyer go ahead and check my name and if you find any negativity on me SHOW ME. Lesson learn here never sale internationally.

 

[endy0430]

here is my refund still waiting om him to send back the Apex

PayPal electronic funds transfer


Inbox
x

[email protected] <[email protected]>
9:44 AM (18 minutes ago)

to me

Dear Endy Valenzuela,

We are processing your request to transfer funds to your PayPal account from your bank account ending in **13.

Processing usually takes 3-5 business days but may vary by bank.

We estimate that these funds will be deposited in your PayPal account by Sep 26, 2018.

We will notify you by email if we have any problems processing your request.

Sincerely,

PayPal




Help:

https://www.paypal.com/selfhelp/home

Security Centre:

https://www.paypal.com/security




Copyright © 1999-2018 PayPal, Inc. All rights reserved. PayPal is located at 2211 N. First St., San Jose, CA 95131.

PayPal PPX000190:N/A:2fa2aae382681

 

[Jay1982]

Endy, you still have yet to provide me with the serial number of the apex units like you said you had when you threatened to keep my money AND the unit (Image of message attached). In your last PM to me you then contradicted yourself saying that you didn't have the serial numbers or the bills anymore (image attached). Nice to see that you found the bills - how about the serial numbers numbers now? The serial numbers of the unit are sticker-ed to the back of the box so if you really did have the serials numbers - you know that I am not screwing you. Convenient that you suddenly don't have them when I provided them to you. If you've done your due diligence then there is no in between here.

Furthermore, I've tried to remain civil and neutral in my thread. I'm not dragging you through the mud. You are doing that to yourself. Do you think that by selling across the border there magically developed problems? I'm sure someone in the US would have just as much of an issue paying for something "un-opened" (something you still claimed after seeing my video) that has been used.

I also did give you a chance to respond but you doubled down and said it was brand new and that you opened the box to check. Which is it? Did you, or did you not open the box - because your story through PM has evolved. At this point when you said it was a new unit - I opened the case. (Image of PM attached)

I've also responded to your messages through PM so don't go saying I ignored you.

Anyways, at this point Paypal has resolved the case for us. So in my books the case is closed. You'll be getting the tracking info early next week.

 

[endy0430]

Endy, you still have yet to provide me with the serial number of the apex units like you said you had when you threatened to keep my money AND the unit (Image of message attached). In your last PM to me you then contradicted yourself saying that you didn't have the serial numbers or the bills anymore (image attached). Nice to see that you found the bills - how about the serial numbers numbers now? The serial numbers of the unit are sticker-ed to the back of the box so if you really did have the serials numbers - you know that I am not screwing you. Convenient that you suddenly don't have them when I provided them to you. If you've done your due diligence then there is no in between here.

Furthermore, I've tried to remain civil and neutral in my thread. I'm not dragging you through the mud. You are doing that to yourself. Do you think that by selling across the border there magically developed problems? I'm sure someone in the US would have just as much of an issue paying for something "un-opened" (something you still claimed after seeing my video) that has been used.

I also did give you a chance to respond but you doubled down and said it was brand new and that you opened the box to check. Which is it? Did you, or did you not open the box - because your story through PM has evolved. At this point when you said it was a new unit - I opened the case. (Image of PM attached)

I've also responded to your messages through PM so don't go saying I ignored you.

Anyways, at this point Paypal has resolved the case for us. So in my books the case is closed. You'll be getting the tracking info early next week.

I didn't find then paper receipt when I bought the Apex but no not magically appeared they were in my Paypal account that's how I found it. I lost the serial number I had written on the paper receipt, Stop acting like a victim I have proof of everything and have provided it all you have is your words.

 

[endy0430]

Funny how I received the Apex and everything seems to be working just fine. No outlet problems what so ever.

 

[Jay1982]

Glad you received the apex ok. 2 things -
I can tell you that when I plugged in a powerhead it didn't power on.
Are you now able to see how this is a used unit. If you really did not send me that on purpose, then it is unfortunate that you had gotten taken. But the way you acted towards me was unacceptable. I know if the roles were reversed I'd be embarrassed.

 

[endy0430]

What outlet wasn't working for you? Because if you knew any better outlet 7 and 8 are set to off set by Apex.
Embarrassed for defending myself NEVER.

 

[Jay1982]

Well, I wouldn't know any better since I had never owned an Apex before, what kind of comment is that? After opening the box and seeing used equipment my first thought wasn't to read up on the manual. It was to contact you. You were unhelpful and accusatory, so that took more of my time having to deal with you. You didn't "defend" yourself - You worked against a buyer who had an issue with an item you sold. As a seller, it is your responsibility to ensure that what you are selling is accurate. And when an issue arises - you don't accuse the buyer.

The fact that you still think you are in the right tells me that you are either lying about not knowing that it was used and you are just trying to reinforce this narrative that you are the victim; or you have absolved yourself from any responsibility in actually selling items online. Again, I'd be embarrassed because I would have at least apologized to the buyer at some point during this whole process for not doing my due diligence in this whole process.

---

Mods, I'm still waiting on paypal to issue the refund after deciding in my favor. Sounds like they are waiting on the seller for something. I don't think continued dialogue with the seller will yield anything positive at this point since he seems to think that I'm somehow in the wrong. I'd still like to keep this thread open until I actually get the money back. After that, I can message someone and you guys can do what you need to do with the thread.

Thanks!

 

[endy0430]

here is my refund still waiting om him to send back the Apex

PayPal electronic funds transfer


Inbox
x

[email protected] <[email protected]>
9:44 AM (18 minutes ago)

to me

Dear Endy Valenzuela,

We are processing your request to transfer funds to your PayPal account from your bank account ending in **13.

Processing usually takes 3-5 business days but may vary by bank.

We estimate that these funds will be deposited in your PayPal account by Sep 26, 2018.

We will notify you by email if we have any problems processing your request.

Sincerely,

PayPal




Help:

https://www.paypal.com/selfhelp/home

Security Centre:

https://www.paypal.com/security




Copyright © 1999-2018 PayPal, Inc. All rights reserved. PayPal is located at 2211 N. First St., San Jose, CA 95131.

PayPal PPX000190:N/A:2fa2aae382681

Don’t you see the refund was given right away there guy. PayPal is not waiting on me for nothing.

 

[Jay1982]

Mods, I just obtained my Paypal refund at the start of the week.