Entire family hospitalized due to palytoxin

Darth.Daddy12

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Nuclear green and purple death are still sold and traded and are of the toxic variety...just prettier.

I bought someone else's system and it had the toxic brown ones in it I am still plucking off.


I agree though most are not toxic or at least not very toxic but they are still out there.
Both of those were tested in the fda testing. Although they did test for toxin the levels were not overly considered to be high. Granted it doesn’t take much and at what level is it an issue is a bigger question. The research didn’t really delve much into this as they mostly identified 2 spexies know to have high levels found a dna marker associated to that toxin and then looked for the dna marker in other varieties. So in theory a coral having the Dna markers has the ability to create toxins but doesn’t mean it does. This is my one issue with the research. It’s like saying a child tests positive for say a diabetes marker yet never develops it in life.

This is what strengthens my resolve on the issue as although a handful test positive for possibly making some level of toxin how many of those ones actually do. I don’t like grays and this is definitely a gray area.

I think ones time is better invested in being able to tell Zoanthids and polys apart as of those with possible markers are almost universally poly and not zoanthids. Of the ones specifically identified as highly toxic regularly both are pally and not zoanthids.

Last part I found interesting in the results is these issues were only found in “wild caught” species. As though generations of fragging had altered genetics for the plants as I’ll call them as they are mostly a plant really.. to not feel the need to have this defense any more.

All that said... I always wear gloves when doing any work inside a tank where I may be near corals, or when ever dealing with corals. Mostly for their protection to be honest as I don’t want something in my hands to hurt them.

If fragging you can add to that a cheap full face shield and glasses under that. If had enough pieces of you name it in my eyes of the years from other sources.. I really have no desire to be blind for something that was easily preventable.

I’ll end this by adding that not one documented case I can find has ever ended in perminant health issues or death. so is it a concern.. to some extent it is to the point of further educating ones self and taking simple precautions. Beyond that.. I see the entire thing as highly over hyped and yet somehow this issue pops up almost once a year and gets over hyped.
 
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redfishbluefish

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Here's the bottom line on paly's and zoa's....they contain toxins, some more than others. They don't care if they are pretty or ugly, or brown or green, or big or small.....paly's and zoa's contain toxin. Some have relied on Google searches to pontificate their beliefs, but most here have given real life experiences handling paly's and zoa's....real life stories.....true....they actually happened....not made up or found on Google. And yes, some folks have died from exposure. So here it is....if you have paly's or zoa's in your tank, wear gloves while handling. If you wish to frag them, wear goggles or eye protection, because they can atomize their toxin. I have a full face mask when I frag. If you don't believe me, Google it! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
 

Darth.Daddy12

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Here's the bottom line on paly's and zoa's....they contain toxins, some more than others. They don't care if they are pretty or ugly, or brown or green, or big or small.....paly's and zoa's contain toxin. Some have relied on Google searches to pontificate their beliefs, but most here have given real life experiences handling paly's and zoa's....real life stories.....true....they actually happened....not made up or found on Google. And yes, some folks have died from exposure. So here it is....if you have paly's or zoa's in your tank, wear gloves while handling. If you wish to frag them, wear goggles or eye protection, because they can atomize their toxin. I have a full face mask when I frag. If you don't believe me, Google it! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Hmm last I checked I was the only one who actually referenced actual true government research reports backed by the smithsonia.. but yeah I guess for some google is hard to use..

everytime I get a sore throught doesn’t mean it throat cancer or the Flu. Just cause you associate something to be true doesn’t make it so.
 

Tamberav

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If you dip zoas/palys in hyd. peroxide you need to take special precautions as well. I suffered from what I believe was palytoxin poisoning about 8 years ago and posted the story here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/peroxide-warning.59376/

I do take issue with some comments on here implying that only the plain or ugly palys contain dangerous toxin... have all of them in the trade been tested?? In my case none of mine were ugly and I believe the main culprit was my purple death(how ironic) protopalys.

Also, the current story seems odd though as it doesn't mention how the palytoxin could have been made airborne. They must have at some point boiled the rock or something to poison everyone in the house I would think...
Purple death made me sick everytime I had to frag them so I fed them to my paly eating crab.. I had enough headaches...strange feelings and coughing after.
 

Tamberav

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Both of those were tested in the fda testing. Although they did test for toxin the levels were not overly considered to be high. Granted it doesn’t take much and at what level is it an issue is a bigger question. The research didn’t really delve much into this as they mostly identified 2 spexies know to have high levels found a dna marker associated to that toxin and then looked for the dna marker in other varieties. So in theory a coral having the Dna markers has the ability to create toxins but doesn’t mean it does. This is my one issue with the research. It’s like saying a child tests positive for say a diabetes marker yet never develops it in life.

This is what strengthens my resolve on the issue as although a handful test positive for possibly making some level of toxin how many of those ones actually do. I don’t like grays and this is definitely a gray area.

I think ones time is better invested in being able to tell Zoanthids and polys apart as of those with possible markers are almost universally poly and not zoanthids. Of the ones specifically identified as highly toxic regularly both are pally and not zoanthids.

Last part I found interesting in the results is these issues were only found in “wild caught” species. As though generations of fragging had altered genetics for the plants as I’ll call them as they are mostly a plant really.. to not feel the need to have this defense any more.

All that said... I always wear gloves when doing any work inside a tank where I may be near corals, or when ever dealing with corals. Mostly for their protection to be honest as I don’t want something in my hands to hurt them.

If fragging you can add to that a cheap full face shield and glasses under that. If had enough pieces of you name it in my eyes of the years from other sources.. I really have no desire to be blind for something that was easily preventable.

I’ll end this by adding that not one documented case I can find has ever ended in perminant health issues or death. so is it a concern.. to some extent it is to the point of further educating ones self and taking simple precautions. Beyond that.. I see the entire thing as highly over hyped and yet somehow this issue pops up almost once a year and gets over hyped.
Purple death made me feel ill every time I fragged it to the point I got rid of it. That's enough proof for me...I have no issues with my other zoas or palys. I wasn't ill enough to go to the hospital or anything but it was there and uncomfortable.

I did have toxic osteo dino in that tank too for awhile. So even if they are not wild caught....I bet they could collect it in their tissues if it is present in the tank.
 
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Darth.Daddy12

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Purple death made me feel ill every time I fragged it to the point I got rid of it. That's enough proof for me...I have no issues with my other zoas or palys. I wasn't ill enough to go to the hospital or anything but it was there and uncomfortable.

I did have toxic osteo dino in that tank too for awhile. So even if they are not wild caught....I bet they could collect it in their tissues if it is present in the tank.
It’s actually the Dino inside the coral that contains the toxin in the first place to my understanding. Thays the thing with corals is they are not one creature but several that all rely on one another for survival.

Thing is and I’m shocked I’ve yet to find a study on this anywhere to date.. is this where Dino in a tank comes from in the first place? Is it from an unhappy coral pucking it up which then allows it to grow in the tank itself? I’ve scratched my head on this idea for hours laying in bed atnight. It’s just seem to logical not to be. We’ve all been told it’s from 0 nutrient systems most times yet it also shows in nutrient rich ones from time to time. The only common I can see is corals.. wonder if anyone has ever managed a zero nutrient Fowler? I know right! But I’m sure some have and I wonder if they’ve ever had Dino? It’s my unsubstantiated theory that it stems from the corals themselves. Bit from how a tank is kept although this can be the reason a coral is unhappy I don’t think it’s the real reason for it’s occurrence.
 

rkpetersen

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I think ones time is better invested in being able to tell Zoanthids and polys apart as of those with possible markers are almost universally poly and not zoanthids.
Do you know of a straightforward way to do this?
Many sellers aren't very careful about using the correct genus in their descriptions.
Many times I see specimens that I would swear were zoas, called palys.
And occasionally vice versa.
It would be good to know a valid ID method that's generally applicable.
 

Darth.Daddy12

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Do you know of a straightforward way to do this?
Many sellers aren't very careful about using the correct genus in their descriptions.
Many times I see specimens that I would swear were zoas, called palys.
And occasionally vice versa.
It would be good to know a valid ID method that's generally applicable.
Research.. and research some more.. thing is wo testing one can never be 100% sure but you can be 90% with good knowledge base. There is lots of useful information just by googling this.
 

Darth.Daddy12

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we need pics and a work thread ;)
Hmm wondering now what one would taste like.. I’m guessing horrible and chewy lol. Seeing how most do have some level of Paly but only a few are able to secrete it to toxic levels I’m thinking based on even a small amount ingested I don’t want to be that gunnie pig lol. It’s one thing to get a little in the water or on a hand that’s washed.. this changes story very fast once you ingest it.
 
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NotASpammerDude

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Hmm wondering now what one would taste like.. I’m guessing horrible and chewy lol. Seeing how most do have some level of Paly but only a few are able to secrete it to toxic levels I’m thinking based on even a small amount ingested I don’t want to be that gunnie pig lol. It’s one thing to get a little in the water or on a hand that’s washed.. this changes story very fast once you ingest it.
Ill never get zoas or palys cause I am afraid my puffer (GSP) would take a bit
 

Mastiffsrule

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Purple death made me sick everytime I had to frag them so I fed them to my paly eating crab.. I had enough headaches...strange feelings and coughing after.

Which crab eats palys? I will get 50.
 

Tamberav

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Which crab eats palys? I will get 50.
Gaudy Clown Crab eats palythoas....it is their natural diet ...they use the toxins as self defense...you are what you eat I guess. He does not touch anything else...even when he ran out of palys he just ate leftover fish food.

I got mine as a gift from reef cleaners but KPA has them sometimes. They are not commonly offered but his appetite for palythoa is huge... So you wouldn't need many. One might even do it for pest palys.

The paly met it's end not long after this photo.

MVIMG_20190626_201049.jpg
 

crawling junk

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Gaudy Clown Crab eats palythoas....it is their natural diet ...they use the toxins as self defense...you are what you eat I guess. He does not touch anything else...even when he ran out of palys he just ate leftover fish food.

I got mine as a gift from reef cleaners but KPA has them sometimes. They are not commonly offered but his appetite for palythoa is huge... So you wouldn't need many. One might even do it for pest palys.

The paly met it's end not long after this photo.

MVIMG_20190626_201049.jpg
would they eat zoa or only polys
 
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Jeremy K.A.

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Gaudy Clown Crab eats palythoas....it is their natural diet ...they use the toxins as self defense...you are what you eat I guess. He does not touch anything else...even when he ran out of palys he just ate leftover fish food.

I got mine as a gift from reef cleaners but KPA has them sometimes. They are not commonly offered but his appetite for palythoa is huge... So you wouldn't need many. One might even do it for pest palys.

The paly met it's end not long after this photo.

MVIMG_20190626_201049.jpg
That crab is the bomb! stunning
 

Jeremy K.A.

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People saying to wear gloves when handling zoas and palys, that doesn't always help. I got palytoxin poisoning just from having my arm in the tank moving other corals, and no I didn't have any cuts/ wounds etc so who knows
 

Peach02

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People saying to wear gloves when handling zoas and palys, that doesn't always help. I got palytoxin poisoning just from having my arm in the tank moving other corals, and no I didn't have any cuts/ wounds etc so who knows
What where the symptoms?
 

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