Extremely high Phospates???

[MrWellington]

I've been fighting high phosphate levels for over 10 days, and it's only getting worse?! I'm at my wits end trying to find the source.

10 days ago, it was 1.20
Today -- it's 4.1!

I've cut WAY back on food, limiting only to freeze-dried Mysis, which is also fed to a FOWLR, without any impact.
I did 25 gal water changes every day using Instant Ocean.

Today, out of curiosity, I tested the salt mix tank. .35?
Then I tested RODI tank water, .05? Why would a 7- stage RODI water system have any phosphates? And why would mixing in salt increase it 7x?

Fish are fine, but Nem's appear to be suffering and some corals look off-color.

120 gal tank:
RH: 1.025
NO4: 2.4
NO3: 0
pH: 7.9

In comparison: FOWLR tank:
RH:1.024
NO4: 12.5
NO3: 0
P04: .09
pH: 8.0

Same water, Same food... only 10% water change weekly.

I've added a satchel of Phosguard into the sump 2 days ago.

 

[Orito]

are you sure your test kit is correct?

 

[Labridaedicted]

What test kit are you using? Additionally, whats the age of the system?

 

[Reefer Matt]

I would check with another test kit before changing anything.

 

[Spare time]

I would not cut down feeding. Your nitrate is 0 which can be problematic and is probably more of an issue than phosphate.

 

[MrWellington]

I'm Using Hanna po4 ulr tester. I have to mix the viel normally, then dilute it 10:1 in order to get a reading that isn't out of range. The result is then reading x10. Otherwise, the viel gets as blue as the hippo tang.

The tank is almost 6 months old.

 

[Spare time]

I would double check with another test kit just in case. Then I would dose aminos for the corals. If the phosphate truly is that high, figuring out why is the next step, followed by something like gfo.

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

Check your water after it leaves the ro membrane. my guueee is you need a new membrane

 

[MrWellington]

Did just that, and it gave me a .05 reading.. So I ordered a new set of carbon and DI filters. Likely due to replacement anyway. Also emptied and scrubbed down the salt mix barrel. There was some sediment, but nothing major. It was bothering me that the mix barrel gave me a .35 reading. (repeated several times to be sure).

I DID however notice a reddish-brown film on the gyres when I was scrapping down the glass. The exact same color as un-hatched mysys eggs. While I normally filter out most shells, it wasn't very concerning as all the fish are well past "fry" stage. I wondering if that could be the culprit?

My mission today is four 25g water changes... because I don't know what else to do. Current reading 3.25 with 50G's swapped out.

 

[randomfishdude]

Did just that, and it gave me a .05 reading.. So I ordered a new set of carbon and DI filters. Likely due to replacement anyway. Also emptied and scrubbed down the salt mix barrel. There was some sediment, but nothing major. It was bothering me that the mix barrel gave me a .35 reading. (repeated several times to be sure).

I DID however notice a reddish-brown film on the gyres when I was scrapping down the glass. The exact same color as un-hatched mysys eggs. While I normally filter out most shells, it wasn't very concerning as all the fish are well past "fry" stage. I wondering if that could be the culprit?

My mission today is four 25g water changes... because I don't know what else to do. Current reading 3.25 with 50G's swapped out.

I think the film is just algae.
I have the same thing.
But I have no clue on your phos.
Have you checked your faucet water too?
Along with if your filters are bad?

 

[gbroadbridge]

I'm Using Hanna po4 ulr tester. I have to mix the viel normally, then dilute it 10:1 in order to get a reading that isn't out of range. The result is then reading x10. Otherwise, the viel gets as blue as the hippo tang.

The tank is almost 6 months old.

You need to perform the dilution before the test and you need to dilute with freshly mixed salt water, not with RODI water.

In any case, test again with a different test kit - you could have bad Hanna reagents.

 

[MrWellington]

I REALLY need some help on this, and no longer know where to turn.

Since my last update, I've used almost a liter of Phosphat-E (~30ml every 6 hours) and got PO4 levels down from 4.1 to .20 as of yesterday AM.... this morning; they are back up to .90!

In the last week:
- I've moved all the corals to QT.
- I've scrubbed the surface of all the rock, cleaned the glass, vacuumed the sand, disassembled and cleaned out the sump.
- I've added 50lbs of fully cycled Live Rock to the sump
- I've dosed Neo-Nitro to get nitrogen levels up to ~10ppm from .04.
- I've added FOUR air stones to the sump as pH sits around 7.9 even though the skimmer gets outside air and alkalinity is at 10.5
- I've carbon dosed with vinegar.
- I've gone through over 120lbs of Instant Ocean doing water changes - EVERY day.
- I did ZERO feeding yesterday.

I'm at a complete loss as to what else I can do or try... and more importantly, my brain hurts trying to figure out where/why phosphates keep rising so radically.

And before it's mentioned again - IT'S NOT THE TESTER! I have TWO hanna PO4 testers with separate batches of reagents, and they BOTH say the same thing.

What am I doing wrong?! I REALLY need some help understanding this.

The tank is 5 months old:
pH: 7.8
Temp: 77
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10.2
Phosphate: .90
Dkh: 10.5

 

[randomfishdude]

I belive phosphate is in the rock.
So if you lower it some is going to come back because it's in the rock.

But even that seems awfully fast.
Do you have a Refugium?

 

[Pistondog]

What @randomfishdude said. The po4 is also bound in the rock and substrate. When the po4 level in the water drops, some leaches out. Keep at it, youll get there.

 

[MrWellington]

No refugium. My several attempts have always failed.
Should I pull all the rock and scrub outside the tank?

 

[JayM]

No refugium. My several attempts have always failed.
Should I pull all the rock and scrub outside the tank?

From what I understand, the phosphates are IN the rock, not ON the rock. If my understanding is correct, scrubbing probably won’t work.

 

[Pistondog]

You are doing the right thing, it is coming down.

 

[TheBear78]

What is your process for the 10:1 dilution, step by step? Also, before you test, do you let the vials settle for a few seconds after shaking/mixing?
I occasionally got out of range readings on my Hanna ULR when there was no real reason for it. I realised after a while that micro bubbles seemed to be affecting the results and if I let then settle it was much more predictable.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I REALLY need some help on this, and no longer know where to turn.

Since my last update, I've used almost a liter of Phosphat-E (~30ml every 6 hours) and got PO4 levels down from 4.1 to .20 as of yesterday AM.... this morning; they are back up to .90!

In the last week:
- I've moved all the corals to QT.
- I've scrubbed the surface of all the rock, cleaned the glass, vacuumed the sand, disassembled and cleaned out the sump.
- I've added 50lbs of fully cycled Live Rock to the sump
- I've dosed Neo-Nitro to get nitrogen levels up to ~10ppm from .04.
- I've added FOUR air stones to the sump as pH sits around 7.9 even though the skimmer gets outside air and alkalinity is at 10.5
- I've carbon dosed with vinegar.
- I've gone through over 120lbs of Instant Ocean doing water changes - EVERY day.
- I did ZERO feeding yesterday.

I'm at a complete loss as to what else I can do or try... and more importantly, my brain hurts trying to figure out where/why phosphates keep rising so radically.

And before it's mentioned again - IT'S NOT THE TESTER! I have TWO hanna PO4 testers with separate batches of reagents, and they BOTH say the same thing.

What am I doing wrong?! I REALLY need some help understanding this.

The tank is 5 months old:
pH: 7.8
Temp: 77
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10.2
Phosphate: .90
Dkh: 10.5

Phosphate binds at a molecular level to the carbonate structure of the rock.
It's not something that can be washed off.

It will continue to leach from the rocks for quite some time, perhaps weeks.
You simply need to keep replacing removing the phosphate as it is released from the rock, sand and any other carbonate reservoir.

Additionally, carbon takes weeks or months to build up sufficient bacteria to lower phosphates/nitrates.

There are no quick fixes, you simply need patience.

 

[jda]

Yup. You just have to keep going.

This is a molecular bind, so the po4 will bind to equilibrium with the water column. This is not a leeching deal where it can wash off. The bind is stable if the water column level stays the same - water column level goes up and more binds... water column level goes down and more unbinds.