First Ever Cycle - Am I just being impatient?

[Hit_It_Rockapella]

Hello everyone!
I have a Red Sea Reefer S550 G3 and began my first ever cycle (fishless, dry rock and sand) on December 6.
I used Fritz Turbostart 900 and Fauna Marin Reef Pro Bac (added two days after the Turbostart).
My ammonia source is Brightwell MicroBacter QuikCycl, which was dosed when I added the Turbostart right at the beginning.
I've been testing daily and here is a quick and dirty summary of my results so far:

Salinity = 1.025, stable
Temp = 78F, stable
pH = Started at 7.8 and has risen to 8.1 where it seems to have stabilised.
Ammonia = Initially rose to 1.5ppm, but has been functionally 0ppm for about two weeks now. I ghost fed a couple of clownfish pellets a few days ago and didn't detect a change.
Nitrite = Appeared quickly and slowly rose to about 2ppm, maxing out at 3-4ppm (Salifert test kit estimation) for about 2 days, and has since stabilised at 2ppm.
Nitrate = Also appeared quickly and has gradually risen to 6ppm where it has stayed for the past 10 days.

Obviously I'm eager to see my nitrite level drop but I can't shake the feeling I have an imbalanced population of bacteria. It feels like I have a strong ammonia-converting population and a weak/small/lagging population of nitrite-converting bacteria. My tank seems to be quite stable, which I suppose I'm happy about. I'm just concerned I don't have a robust enough population of nitrite-converters to push through this nitrite plateau and finish out the cycle. Maybe I'm just impatient. Thoughts?

 

[Fish Fan]

The nitrite oxidizing bacteria appear to lag behind the ammonia oxidizers because the nitrite needs to first be produced by the ammonia oxidizers before the nitrite oxidizers can start to grow.

If your ammonia was up and is now zero, you’re cycled. There’s no need to wait for the nitrite to zero out, it’s non toxic in saltwater, and you could proceed with slowly adding some hardy livestock at this point.

Good luck!

 

[RedReefer]

I would probably ad 1-2 fish and run with it for another 30 - 60 days. Give yourself a litttle extra time for things to happen. Dry rock start can bring surprises after a few months.

 

[Hit_It_Rockapella]

I would probably ad 1-2 fish and run with it for another 30 - 60 days. Give yourself a litttle extra time for things to happen. Dry rock start can bring surprises after a few months.

What kind of surprises?

 

[EnterName]

Your nitrate (NO₃) readings are probably off because there is nitrite (NO₂) in your system. When testing nitrate the NO₃ is reduced to NO₂ first, and then your test actually measures NO₂. This means if there already is nitrite present, it will mess with the results. In short: don't believe nitrate tests if there is nitrite.

However, it doesn't matter too much: Nitrite isn't really dangerous in reef tanks.

What kind of surprises?

You will enter the ugly phase (as all tanks do), but with dry rock it is often longer and more extreme. In my opinion the best thing you can do during this time is absolutely nothing and let nature do its thing. It will take time, but the tank will get there.

First you will see brown stains on the substrate (these are diatoms), harmless micro algae that will vanish on their own as long as you don't accidentally introduce more silicates into the water. As long as your top-off water is properly de-ionized there is nothing to worry about.

Green hair algae will follow and stay for quite a while until finally coralline algae starts to grow an the tank is ready for the first robust corals.

During the first 12 months you will probably also see some annoying brown slime (dinoflagellates). They can be a nightmare in established tanks, but are very common in young tanks and especially in tanks that were started with dry rock. Ignore them until the ugly phase (diatom & green hair algae phase) is over. Afterward you can come back and the community will give you advice on nutrient dosing (if necessary), silicate dosing (to let diatoms compete with them), and UV sterilization, to get rid of them.

As you started with 100% dry rock and sand (my current tank has been started the same way), you will need to bring a lot of patience.

 

[RedReefer]

What kind of surprises?

Algae

 

[Hit_It_Rockapella]

Your nitrate (NO₃) readings are probably off because there is nitrite (NO₂) in your system. When testing nitrate the NO₃ is reduced to NO₂ first, and then your test actually measures NO₂. This means if there already is nitrite present, it will mess with the results. In short: don't believe nitrate tests if there is nitrite.

However, it doesn't matter too much: Nitrite isn't really dangerous in reef tanks.


You will enter the ugly phase (as all tanks do), but with dry rock it is often longer and more extreme. In my opinion the best thing you can do during this time is absolutely nothing and let nature do its thing. It will take time, but the tank will get there.

First you will see brown stains on the substrate (these are diatoms), harmless micro algae that will vanish on their own as long as you don't accidentally introduce more silicates into the water. As long as your top-off water is properly de-ionized there is nothing to worry about.

Green hair algae will follow and stay for quite a while until finally coralline algae starts to grow an the tank is ready for the first robust corals.

During the first 12 months you will probably also see some annoying brown slime (dinoflagellates). They can be a nightmare in established tanks, but are very common in young tanks and especially in tanks that were started with dry rock. Ignore them until the ugly phase (diatom & green hair algae phase) is over. Afterward you can come back and the community will give you advice on nutrient dosing (if necessary), silicate dosing (to let diatoms compete with them), and UV sterilization, to get rid of them.

As you started with 100% dry rock and sand (my current tank has been started the same way), you will need to bring a lot of patience.

Thank you for the detail. I'm already seeing the diatoms on the rock. I'm strongly considering following your advice and adding a pair of clowns. At what point should I add a small CUC?

 

[arcwaveaquatics]

Hello everyone!
I have a Red Sea Reefer S550 G3 and began my first ever cycle (fishless, dry rock and sand) on December 6.
I used Fritz Turbostart 900 and Fauna Marin Reef Pro Bac (added two days after the Turbostart).
My ammonia source is Brightwell MicroBacter QuikCycl, which was dosed when I added the Turbostart right at the beginning.
I've been testing daily and here is a quick and dirty summary of my results so far:

Salinity = 1.025, stable
Temp = 78F, stable
pH = Started at 7.8 and has risen to 8.1 where it seems to have stabilised.
Ammonia = Initially rose to 1.5ppm, but has been functionally 0ppm for about two weeks now. I ghost fed a couple of clownfish pellets a few days ago and didn't detect a change.
Nitrite = Appeared quickly and slowly rose to about 2ppm, maxing out at 3-4ppm (Salifert test kit estimation) for about 2 days, and has since stabilised at 2ppm.
Nitrate = Also appeared quickly and has gradually risen to 6ppm where it has stayed for the past 10 days.

Obviously I'm eager to see my nitrite level drop but I can't shake the feeling I have an imbalanced population of bacteria. It feels like I have a strong ammonia-converting population and a weak/small/lagging population of nitrite-converting bacteria. My tank seems to be quite stable, which I suppose I'm happy about. I'm just concerned I don't have a robust enough population of nitrite-converters to push through this nitrite plateau and finish out the cycle. Maybe I'm just impatient. Thoughts?

You’re probably overthinking it a bit, which is very easy to do during a first cycle.

What you’re seeing is actually very typical for a bottled-bacteria, fishless cycle. Ammonia at zero, nitrate present, and nitrite “stuck” is almost always a testing artifact rather than a true biological problem. In saltwater, nitrite is far less toxic and far less meaningful than it is in freshwater, and many nitrite test kits will continue to show a reading long after the bacteria are already doing their job.

The fact that ammonia has been processing to zero for weeks and nitrate is stable around 6 ppm tells you the cycle is functionally working. If nitrite bacteria truly weren’t present, ammonia wouldn’t be staying at zero after ghost feeding.

Adding multiple bacterial products doesn’t really hurt, but it also doesn’t speed things up much once ammonia oxidizers are established. At this point, the best thing you can do is stop intervening, keep temp and salinity stable, and give it time. Constant testing and adding more inputs can actually slow things down.

If you want a simple confirmation, you can dose a very small amount of ammonia and see if it’s processed to zero within 24 hours. If it is, the tank is cycled regardless of what nitrite reads.

In short, nothing here suggests an imbalanced or weak system. This looks like a normal marine cycle, and patience is doing more work for you now than any extra bacteria will.

 

[EnterName]

Thank you for the detail. I'm already seeing the diatoms on the rock. I'm strongly considering following your advice and adding a pair of clowns. At what point should I add a small CUC?

You started with dry rock and sand so the clean up crew won't find much food. Snails might graze on some diatoms, but hermits would have to resort to cannibalism or snack the snails if they can't find enough food.

To test if your nitrogen cycle is really fast enough to house a clownfish pair, you could increase ammonia to 2.0ppm and if it's gone within 12h - 24h it should be safe for a pair of clown fish (assuming you don't start feeding excessively). If you really want to stock the tank already, I would still have freshly mixed saltwater, high ABV vodka/ethanol, and a phosphate stock solution, at hand in case you see an ammonia spike (explanation below).

You could also start by adding living marine copepods which will also help with breaking down fish waste and are very beneficial to a tank. They can't be "overdosed" as their population will depend on the available detritus and microalgae and even in large numbers they don't cause any harm. They have an easier time establishing if there aren't any fish in the tank yet that eat them before they reach safety.

Explanation: Why phosphate and alcohol?

Every living being requires carbon, nitrogen, and phosphate (phosphorus and oxygen), as these are the building blocks of DNA. If you have excessive ammonia & ammonium (NH₃/NH₄, so nitrogen-based compounds), the limiting factors for its reduction can be carbon, oxygen, or phosphate. If you have a skimmer running oxygen should be fine, but in your nearly sterile tank phosphate will be bound to the rocks and substrate very fast and it will very like take quite long until you get detectable phosphate levels.

With a phosphate solution you can ensure the bacteria have all the phosphate they need. The vodka/ethanol (or acetic acid) is for providing an organic carbon source. You may have heard of carbonates (CO₃) and bicarbonates (HCO₃) in terms of alkalinity, but carbonates are inorganic carbon which not all bacteria have access to. By adding an organic carbon source you give them the carbon they need and can actually use. You skimmer will provide the required oxygen.

+ If everything goes wrong the vodka might help to cope with the situation :D

If there is no ammonia spike, I would not start with carbon dosing as this will just cause bacteria blooms which you will have to deal with anyway in the next months. The water will turn cloudy (which isn't an issue and nothing to worry about), but you need to keep your skimmer running 24/7 to ensure there is enough oxygen for fish and bacteria.

I hope that covers the basics. I usually wouldn't go too deep into such details or would advice to dose anything into a young tank, but as you started with dry rock and dry sand these things can be very helpful in case of an emergency.

 

[Hit_It_Rockapella]

You started with dry rock and sand so the clean up crew won't find much food. Snails might graze on some diatoms, but hermits would have to resort to cannibalism or snack the snails if they can't find enough food.

To test if your nitrogen cycle is really fast enough to house a clownfish pair, you could increase ammonia to 2.0ppm and if it's gone within 12h - 24h it should be safe for a pair of clown fish (assuming you don't start feeding excessively). If you really want to stock the tank already, I would still have freshly mixed saltwater, high ABV vodka/ethanol, and a phosphate stock solution, at hand in case you see an ammonia spike (explanation below).

You could also start by adding living marine copepods which will also help with breaking down fish waste and are very beneficial to a tank. They can't be "overdosed" as their population will depend on the available detritus and microalgae and even in large numbers they don't cause any harm. They have an easier time establishing if there aren't any fish in the tank yet that eat them before they reach safety.



I hope that covers the basics. I usually wouldn't go too deep into such details or would advice to dose anything into a young tank, but as you started with dry rock and dry sand these things can be very helpful in case of an emergency.

Hello everyone!
I have a Red Sea Reefer S550 G3 and began my first ever cycle (fishless, dry rock and sand) on December 6.
I used Fritz Turbostart 900 and Fauna Marin Reef Pro Bac (added two days after the Turbostart).
My ammonia source is Brightwell MicroBacter QuikCycl, which was dosed when I added the Turbostart right at the beginning.
I've been testing daily and here is a quick and dirty summary of my results so far:

Salinity = 1.025, stable
Temp = 78F, stable
pH = Started at 7.8 and has risen to 8.1 where it seems to have stabilised.
Ammonia = Initially rose to 1.5ppm, but has been functionally 0ppm for about two weeks now. I ghost fed a couple of clownfish pellets a few days ago and didn't detect a change.
Nitrite = Appeared quickly and slowly rose to about 2ppm, maxing out at 3-4ppm (Salifert test kit estimation) for about 2 days, and has since stabilised at 2ppm.
Nitrate = Also appeared quickly and has gradually risen to 6ppm where it has stayed for the past 10 days.

Obviously I'm eager to see my nitrite level drop but I can't shake the feeling I have an imbalanced population of bacteria. It feels like I have a strong ammonia-converting population and a weak/small/lagging population of nitrite-converting bacteria. My tank seems to be quite stable, which I suppose I'm happy about. I'm just concerned I don't have a robust enough population of nitrite-converters to push through this nitrite plateau and finish out the cycle. Maybe I'm just impatient. Thoughts?

I'm adding to my original post to add an important discovery that I just made.
This entire time I've been reading my NO2 test results incorrectly.
I'm using the Salifert nitrite test kit and have been reading the results from the side as opposed to the top of the vial. I just learned the side view result has to be divided by a factor of 10!! This means my reading is actually ~0.2ppm and has been for about 2 weeks. I'm so embarrassed.

 

[EnterName]

I'm adding to my original post to add an important discovery that I just made.
This entire time I've been reading my NO2 test results incorrectly.
I'm using the Salifert nitrite test kit and have been reading the results from the side as opposed to the top of the vial. I just learned the side view result has to be divided by a factor of 10!! This means my reading is actually ~0.2ppm and has been for about 2 weeks. I'm so embarrassed.

Everyone has to learn to use their equipment first. Don't worry about it, this stuff happens :)
The same applies to the salifert nitrate (NO₃) test kit btw.

 

[Hit_It_Rockapella]

Everyone has to learn to use their equipment first. Don't worry about it, this stuff happens :)
The same applies to the salifert nitrate (NO₃) test kit btw.

Thank you for the heads up :). For nitrate I'm actually using the Hanna Checker. Probably a good thing since apparently I don't know how to read instructions!!

 

[Hit_It_Rockapella]

You’re probably overthinking it a bit, which is very easy to do during a first cycle.

What you’re seeing is actually very typical for a bottled-bacteria, fishless cycle. Ammonia at zero, nitrate present, and nitrite “stuck” is almost always a testing artifact rather than a true biological problem. In saltwater, nitrite is far less toxic and far less meaningful than it is in freshwater, and many nitrite test kits will continue to show a reading long after the bacteria are already doing their job.

The fact that ammonia has been processing to zero for weeks and nitrate is stable around 6 ppm tells you the cycle is functionally working. If nitrite bacteria truly weren’t present, ammonia wouldn’t be staying at zero after ghost feeding.

Adding multiple bacterial products doesn’t really hurt, but it also doesn’t speed things up much once ammonia oxidizers are established. At this point, the best thing you can do is stop intervening, keep temp and salinity stable, and give it time. Constant testing and adding more inputs can actually slow things down.

If you want a simple confirmation, you can dose a very small amount of ammonia and see if it’s processed to zero within 24 hours. If it is, the tank is cycled regardless of what nitrite reads.

In short, nothing here suggests an imbalanced or weak system. This looks like a normal marine cycle, and patience is doing more work for you now than any extra bacteria will.

Thank you for this thoughtful response. Not sure if you've seen my post update since you wrote this, but I've been misreading my nitrite result by a factor of 10 (for shame!). My nitrite is actually ~0.2ppm, which explains a lot in my mind. I think my tank has in fact been cycled for a while .
I followed your advice and dosed 2.5mL of ammonia today before I left for work. I'm quite certain it's going to be 0ppm tomorrow morning. If so, I'll pick up my clownfish pair in the afternoon :).

 

[KrisReef]

I'm adding to my original post to add an important discovery that I just made.
This entire time I've been reading my NO2 test results incorrectly.
I'm using the Salifert nitrite test kit and have been reading the results from the side as opposed to the top of the vial. I just learned the side view result has to be divided by a factor of 10!! This means my reading is actually ~0.2ppm and has been for about 2 weeks. I'm so embarrassed.

Thanks for reminding me of this pitfall with these test kits. I’m sure others will repeat this one, and it is helpful to be aware that it can easily happen.

I love my Hanna Checkers because they do the visual comparison and leave me out of that loop.

 

[Hit_It_Rockapella]

Thanks for reminding me of this pitfall with these test kits. I’m sure others will repeat this one, and it is helpful to be aware that it can easily happen.

I love my Hanna Checkers because they do the visual comparison and leave me out of that loop.

Absolutely agree. I have Hanna Checkers for everything but nitrite and ammonia.