First Ever Sump Build Advice

[Placentasaur]

Hey there! My name is Cody and I have started a few freshwater tanks in the recent years including a 55 Gallon cichlid tank, a 55 Gallon Ranchu tank, a 29 Gallon female betta sorority and several 2.5-5 gallon tanks containing male bettas. Now the hobby has gotten to be ever more fun and evolving for me as my first fish that started all of these much larger fish tanks that I own was a single betta in a 10 gallon planted tank that I later added neon tetras and some rasbora.
All that being said, I have been buying everything I need to start my first saltwater tank piece by piece. I purchased a 75 gallon tank and really want to make my own sump out of a 40 gallon breeder. I will be doing as much as I can DIY to save on cost as well as.. well it makes me feel good to create nice things lol. Below is a link to see my very crude and not quite to scale picture I drew on Microsoft Paint to plan out most of what I would like my 40 Gallon sump to look like and contain. Please take a look at what I've sketched up and give me any comments or concerns to my mock up.
So far I have bought: 75 Gallon Petco Tank. 40 Gallon Petco Tank. Reef Octopus Classic 150INT. 16" Shadow Overflow - Synergy Reef Systems, BRS Deluxe Reactor.


https://bobsaggit.smugmug.com/40-Gallon-Breeder-Sump/i-Mq7MLmT/A

 

[Placentasaur]

Here is my sketch

 

[ChrisRD]

It looks well thought out...you've obviously done your homework. Over the years I have come to value simplicity with a reef setup. The more gear and stuff you incorporate into the setup, the more stuff you have to clean/maintain/replace over time...and the more stuff you can have problems with.

Assuming you're going to have live rock in the main tank, I wouldn't bother with the bioballs or additional filtration media (between the live rock, micron sock, the skimmer and the fuge you'll have plenty of nutrient export). I think I'd hold off on the biopellet reactor too. It's easy enough to do some carbon dosing later if you need the extra nutrient export (and there's a good chance you may never need it).

I'd also think about a way to shade the skimmer body from the refugium light. In my experience, if you have a fuge light too close to the skimmer you end-up growing coralline, etc. in the skimmer body...resulting in more frequent skimmer cleanings.

This is all just my opinion of course. Looks like you're off to a good start...best of luck with the new setup.

 

[Placentasaur]

I really appreciate your insight. I will definitely be using pukani rock through out the entire display and about a 1 inch sand bed. I can see what you mean about removing the additional filtration media and bio balls. It might be absolutely necessary from what some people are telling me due to the 40G breeder not providing as much space as imagined. I'll definitely consider it though, I just felt it was a nice addition if the space allowed it.
The media reactor was actually going to be a little DIY thing I saw on youtube by "The King of DIY" where he literally used a sturdy water bottle, a small air pump and a mesh screen to make a roughly 12$ home made reactor (Aside from purchasing the bio pellets). Although I know that won't be needed for some time.
I will definitely be painting the wall between my refugium and skimmer now that you mentioned it so thank you very much for that. Cheers mang.

 

[Mandelstam]

If you're painting the wall inside the sump just be sure to check that it's reef safe paint. I think there is a Krylon paint that's safe but I'm not a 100%. Google shall provide. An option is to get black acrylic for that baffle.

One of the compartments in the bubble trap looks kinda narrow but it might just be that my sense of scale is off. Just be sure that you can get down there and clean it out with something without too much hassle.

Edit: Btw, I'm impressed with your MS Paint skills. Most Paint drawings you see looks like they have been made by someone using a trackpad while having a seizure and being drunk at the same time...

 

[Placentasaur]

 

[Placentasaur]

Haha yeah thanks a lot man, above are a few of my paint drawings from some time ago. I used to have a lot of fun on that thing haha.
But yeah I will definitely be using Krylon to paint that if not ordering a single sheet of black acrylic and using ample silicone to keep it secure. Hopefully with the bubble trap I could go as far as 1 1/2' on the first baffle and 2 inches on the second minimally. Larger would be better but I would like to maximize the size of my refugium while not crowding my return pump or skimmer. I'm also hearing it's possible to skip the bubble trap all together.. but Idk if I would like to risk it to be honest. So I want to add it for safety, narrow baffles or not.

 

[Mandelstam]

Haha yeah thanks a lot man, above are a few of my paint drawings from some time ago. I used to have a lot of fun on that thing haha.
But yeah I will definitely be using Krylon to paint that if not ordering a single sheet of black acrylic and using ample silicone to keep it secure. Hopefully with the bubble trap I could go as far as 1 1/2' on the first baffle and 2 inches on the second minimally. Larger would be better but I would like to maximize the size of my refugium while not crowding my return pump or skimmer. I'm also hearing it's possible to skip the bubble trap all together.. but Idk if I would like to risk it to be honest. So I want to add it for safety, narrow baffles or not.

Wow! Those Paint drawings are awesome!

Ok, 1.5" sounds ok! And yes, I've seen a lot of people who don't use them and I think it depends on the skimmer also. Good skimmers don't release a lot of bubbles at their outlet and so the need for a bubble trap is less. At least that's what I think. If there's bubbles from the drains that cause an issue instead of the skimmer you can make a bubble tower in the section where they go down into the sump.

 

[Luno]

Not bad for a first effort. Agreed with simpler is often better advice above as well.

Couple of points I'd make:
- no need to separate drain and sock into different sections, have your drain straight into filter sock and the one chamber

- if your not familiar with biopellets I would strongly consider not using it. In my experience only successful with a recirculating reactor

- would consider your refugium as your last chamber and return in the middle, have your refugium teed off from your return so you can have the flow dialed into what you want not just what your sump is running

 

[Placentasaur]

Ty for your pointers Luno.
I put the drain chamber in there because I've seen a few people do it on youtube and explained that it can help remove bubbles as well as keep things as quiet as possible although it's looking like that would be a good idea as well as removing the additional filter media so that the design would go straight from the filter socks to the skimmer. That would add much more leeway with volume to be added to the skimmer. refugium or return sections.
I've only seen a few sumps done with the refugium in the last section and don't know much as to how exactly that is done, what the benefits are, and how that works. I will definitely look into that though.

 

[Luno]

No problems man, I see the point of bubbles but realistically a good bubble trap with baffles prior to your return section is usually more than enough. Just do take the advice to research biopellets if you aren't familiar with them especially recirculating if you do decide to do the reactor. And really the only benefit to the refugium run in the last section and to be feed from a manifold is to really dial in your flow. But if you plan your sump flow to be right for your fuge your good in the middle.

Last piece of advice which is pretty simple allow for upgrades, plan your sump for your equipment but don't leave yourself without room say if you decide to upgrade skimmer and the new one you really want has a slightly larger footprint. Saves changing baffles around or not going with the equipment you really want

 

[Unregistered User]

Im a recent cross over from freshwater to. Im going to follow your journey. Hope that's ok.

 

[Fin]

I wouldn't paint any of the glass inside of the sump. Don't count on Krylon as being "reef safe." I had inquired directly to them a few years ago and I will include their response below. This is what they sent to me....

Quote from Krylon:

"Thank you for contacting Krylon.

Unfortunately, we do not recommend any of our products to be applied below the water line. None of our products are immersion-rated or waterproof. Our products may last for a time under water, but there is no guarantee as to how long they will hold up.

Additionally, we have nothing that is FDA approved, which is important in terms of ingestion. Our products may harm the aquarium life.

I wish you the best of success with your search for a compatible product. Please let me know if you have additional questions.

Regards,

Daniel
Krylon Product Support"

I think your idea of a black piece of acrylic is a good one. My acrylic nano sump has solid colored baffles, but I also help shade my skimmer with black needlepoint fabric (double layer) held in place by magnets. Like this...

 

[Unregistered User]

I wouldn't paint any of the glass inside of the sump. Don't count on Krylon as being "reef safe." I had inquired directly to them a few years ago and I will include their response below. This is what they sent to me....

Quote from Krylon:

"Thank you for contacting Krylon.

Unfortunately, we do not recommend any of our products to be applied below the water line. None of our products are immersion-rated or waterproof. Our products may last for a time under water, but there is no guarantee as to how long they will hold up.

Additionally, we have nothing that is FDA approved, which is important in terms of ingestion. Our products may harm the aquarium life.

I wish you the best of success with your search for a compatible product. Please let me know if you have additional questions.

Regards,

Daniel
Krylon Product Support"

I think your idea of a black piece of acrylic is a good one. My acrylic nano sump has solid colored baffles, but I also help shade my skimmer with black needlepoint fabric (double layer) held in place by magnets. Like this...

Very pretty.

 

[Fin]

Very pretty.

Well, it used to be. Needs a little TLC now.

 

[Unregistered User]

Well, it used to be. Needs a little TLC now.

I wish at some point in my adolescence I'd of thought to myself... ok Alex you love shop class. Let's take your handy skills to the next level. You know when my parents would of funded the endevor. I keep getting feelings on envy in the forum.

 

[Placentasaur]

Thanks for that info Fin! I had no idea! Everyone is saying Krylon is absolutely safe just go ahead and use it. That totally changes my idea on that. I like your idea.. I'll definitely look into that farther.
Of course CatGal, keep it up adn good luck to you!

 

[Fin]

Thanks for that info Fin! I had no idea! Everyone is saying Krylon is absolutely safe just go ahead and use it. That totally changes my idea on that. I like your idea.. I'll definitely look into that farther.
Of course CatGal, keep it up adn good luck to you!

I think most of what you hear is referring to Krylon Fusion. I believe that is the specific product I asked Krylon about. I have used Fusion on some PVC pipes in the past, mostly above the water line. IME it doesn't exactly "bond on a molecular level" with plastics (which is the way they advertise it). It scratches easily, so probably not much different than any spray paint, at least with PVC. I did have a few inches of painted PVC pipe under water in my old tank and didn't notice any adverse reactions to it in the tank, but I was working with about 160 gallons of water at the time.