First saltwater tank, 40 breeder

Discussion in 'Member Tanks' started by KleineVampir, Apr 14, 2019.

  1. harthag12

    harthag12 Member

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    Read this whole thread & it's a painful read. Please stop doing anything, go read the stickies in all the starting sections & slow down. Water changes replenish minerals & remove unwanted things as well. I don't think anyone really enjoys doing them but they're a part of the hobby for reefers until they have an established system & have it all dialed in, for new tanks & new reefers they're mandatory. You don't have to spend a ton of money in this hobby but you do need to be patient & if you're on forums willing to listen & learn when people give you good advice like ngoodermuth above.
     
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  2. sstanley223

    sstanley223 Active Member

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    Noooo... water changes are the cheapest thing you can do for the biggest reward. In my limited experience
     
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  3. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    I’ve honestly never tried to run zero water change. I will say, I tried to seriously cut back water changes when I was dabbling with zeovit several years ago (ULNS)... and the whole thing didn’t go so well. Spent way too much time and money chasing numbers and way too little time enjoying my tank, which wasn’t doing so hot anyway.

    Not saying it can’t work, there are (were? not sure if it’s still that popular) some amazing Zeovit tanks out there. But for something that was supposed to be “easier” it was actually quite difficult for me. I’ve since decided to keep my tanks simple, and water changes aren’t all that bad once you get a system down ;)

    But, if that’s what you’d like to set as your end goal... I can respect that! Maybe see if you can track down a few zero-water change tanks by searching the forums, and ask for advice on how they got to that point, and what they recommend to start with that goal in mind.
     
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  4. KleineVampir

    KleineVampir Active Member

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    Excuse me? Nobody forced you to read my thread, and you don't have to agree with what I do. Like I've said a few times, this is an experiment. It's not just a display.

    As Mr. Wonderful often has said on shark tank: "We can disagree, but it's my money!" In other words, we can disagree, but it's my tank! Telling me my thread is painful to read and to stop doing anything is incredibly insulting.
     
  5. harthag12

    harthag12 Member

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    You've posted a thread on a public forum asking questions. You've than chosen to ignore the responses suggesting to slow down. You've posted in your thread that you value the life of the creatures you put in the display. I don't care about your money, however you are playing with living creatures and receiving sound advice. I honestly don't know if I want you to find my response as helpful or insulting, as long as you read it & slow down to consider it than I'll count it as win. I hope you heed the advice given you from other people, I won't chime in again.
     
  6. KleineVampir

    KleineVampir Active Member

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    Well honestly, is 2 clowns and an emerald really going that fast? And ok I threw in 2 montiporas that I probably should have waited on. They were both small clowns too, so really the bioload in the tank is practically non-existent. Besides that clown had been a bit transparent for quite a while. It probably would have died no matter what. I feel bad about it and I don't want to be reckless with clownfish. That's why I medicated the tank and I'm observing the remaining clown for a while before I get another clown.

    I understand there are differing philosophies on here. But imagine if I went into your house that you just finished renovating for a month and when I came back to you I said: "Well, that was painful. You should really stop what you're doing." Honestly, how do you think I'm gonna take it? Lying down? Not a chance! Also check out this spooky picture of my crab I took last night.

    20190515_001151.jpg
     
  7. KleineVampir

    KleineVampir Active Member

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    Is it vaguely possible that the clownfish could be hiding? To the point where I couldn't see him from any angle and haven't seen him for about 2 days? I mean there are a lot of rocks in the tank.
     
  8. KleineVampir

    KleineVampir Active Member

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    And he is a small little bugger too. I looked under the middle rock and didn't find him. I can't really move any other rocks. I mean, it's not like I've seen any part of his dead body. And there was no ammonia spike.
     
  9. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    CUC, specifically crabs, can be very efficient at disposing of dead bodies. They could put any mafia to shame

    Out of curiosity, when you said you medicated the tank... I might have missed it, if so I apologize, but with what?

    How is the remaining clown holding up?
     
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  10. KleineVampir

    KleineVampir Active Member

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    You missed it. It was paraguard.

    The remaining fish seems to be fine. He still has nice color and swims in the same places.
     
  11. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Ok, I would add some carbon to remove the ParaGuard- for two reasons. One, not sure it’s really needed at this point... and two, it’s really not “reef safe” in general. Like, not poison-your-whole-tank bad, but probably best not to risk it without a clear diagnosis.

    If you do start seeing weird behavior or physical marks on the remaining clown... post here and we will try to get a better idea what is going on first for you.
     
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  12. Hemmdog

    Hemmdog Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    You know that’s not reef safe right ?
     
  13. KleineVampir

    KleineVampir Active Member

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    Nope. It said it was fine for marine tanks so I put it in. When you say reef you mean corals, right?

    You say carbon...what kind of carbon are you talking about?
     
  14. Hemmdog

    Hemmdog Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    Reef means snail, hermits, crabs, any type of coral, live rock, coraline algae.
    Marine just means fish only.
    If you use a non reef safe product in a reef tank, it’s near impossible to reverse the effects, long term issues making inverts and corals die in hours or days, it’s extremely important to read every precaution label on products you introduce into your tank.
     
  15. KleineVampir

    KleineVampir Active Member

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    Well, it's not my first time using it. I've used it with my freshwater shrimp for over a year. They are as sensitive as it gets, and they are as invertebrate as it gets too. So it's not like I have no idea what I'm doing. I have experience. You guys might be right about the corals though. Honestly the green one isn't looking too good but the red one looks fine. Still, those are only 2 small montiporas.
     
  16. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Activated carbon, like this stuff:
    [​IMG]

    You put it in a little mesh media bag and place it in a high-flow area of the tank. Your refugium would probably work. After 2-3 weeks, take it out and replace it with fresh. It helps removes toxins and impurities from the water, really handy in the case of accidental contamination.

    You have to be careful, things with magnets, metal equipment parts, etc can break down over time and rust... which causes issues. Running carbon passively or in the case of an emergency can save your tank.
     
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  17. KleineVampir

    KleineVampir Active Member

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    It's not accidental contamination, it's purposeful medication. The fish and the crab are both doing fine. I don't think paraguard is what you think it is. They just don't like to say it's for inverts when really you can use it for them.
     
  18. count krunk

    count krunk Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Hello it's me again.

    Here are some takeaways from skipping most comments and looking at your pictures.

    1. You need more flow, and likely more surface agitation
    2. White rocks are NOT what you want in a reef tank. you want them to be purple purple dark and covered in various algae
    3. When you rocks are bright white, they are basically empty of the bacteria you need. Go slow slow until they start to color up
    4. Since you started with white rocks, they will go thru various ugly algae stages, do not give up hope :)
    5. You need to build up bacteria before you add more animals. Start with snails, then crabs (if you want), then shrimp, maybe a larger crab, fish, then corals
    6. don't add an anemone until your rocks have colored up in a purple kind of way
     
  19. KleineVampir

    KleineVampir Active Member

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    It's debatable whether live rock is actually better than dry rock. I chose dry rock knowing the difference. I wanted a clean start without parasites or pests. Also I believe that fish are a bit more hardy than crabs, definitely a lot more than shrimp. Shrimp are some of the most sensitive creatures around. I should know! You're right on snails though. Snails are tough.

    You're probably right about the rest though. Sounds like I need to upgrade from the 24 buck powerhead to the 65 dollar one. Oof! (Or I could just get another 24 buck one, lol.) I dunno, the flow is not tremendous but it is certainly present. How much dang flow do you think I need? If you ever look in ocean documentaries, the flow is never that extreme. I dunno, I suspect people over-do the flow. Your soft corals and anemone probably shouldn't be constantly blowing around like crazy.

    But yeah about the general algae progression...heck they are going through that now! Some algae is growing in the display that probably shouldn't be there. My snails are late in the mail. Though I hope they don't eat algae that I want on the rocks.
     
  20. count krunk

    count krunk Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Sorry I don't mean live is better I mean you want your dry white rock to start coloring up before you really start adding too much life.

    Leave the current $24 power head in and add another.
     
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