Fish deaths - could it be velvet?

[Pandy]

Hi folks,

Just lately I have been experiencing somewhat random, but connected deaths in my reef.

Each fish has showed the same symptoms, which are rapid respiration and erratic swimming around the tank - none have shown any physically symptoms in terms of damage to the gills or scales. I have lost 8 fish over the last month or two, and have 5 remaining so want to get them treated as soon as possible - I'm just unsure if I should be treating for velvet or something else?

I had a Yellow Wrasse die on the 4th July, I didn't notice any symptoms on this fish , I just found it on the sand one morning.

Next my four Chalk Bass dwindled down to none starting from the 21st August - this is when I first noticed the symptoms of rapid respiration and erratic swimming. They all died within two weeks I'd say, but spread out.

Then my Convict Tang died one the 29th August, again showing the same symptoms.

Sometime in between then and now, I also lost my Tailspot Blenny, but I didn't see anything there, he just disappeared.

And finally, this Sunday gone I lost my Longnose Butterfly. Woke up to him wrapped around my MP40, still alive, but he was gone within 6 hours, showing the same symptoms as previous.

Any thoughts to give a lost sheep a helping hand?

Thanks
Andy

 

[melypr1985]

Do you have any fish left or a fresh body? You could do a freshwater dip on them to check for flukes.

Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes & "Black Ich", Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.


This is what to look for:

 

[Pandy]

I forgot to mention that, I freshwater dipped a few of the Bass and the Tang after they had died, but nothing showed up in the tub - I'm not sure if that's normal on a dead fish or not (do the flukes drop off a dead host?)

They were really clean, as my first thought was flukes.

 

[Humblefish]

I forgot to mention that, I freshwater dipped a few of the Bass and the Tang after they had died, but nothing showed up in the tub - I'm not sure if that's normal on a dead fish or not (do the flukes drop off a dead host?)

They were really clean, as my first thought was flukes.

If no white flukes showed up in the FW dip, this strongly suggests ich or velvet instead.

I would QT all your fish and go fallow for 76 days in the DT.

List all your remaining fish so we can be sure you don't have any known copper sensitive species.

 

[melypr1985]

It's pretty long and drawn out for velvet, but i've seen several cases where velvet showed no outward symptoms. It might be prudent to treat with copper or CP (depending on the species that are left).

 

[Pandy]

The fish are coming out into a QT this week as I'm stripping my display down and starting again with new water, sand, and rock so there's no issues there.

My remaining fish stock consists of

Male and Female Halichoeres Timorensis (what I worry about when treating with CP or Copper)
Male and Female Amphiprion Ocellaris
Valenciennea Longipinnis

 

[Humblefish]

@Pandy I recommend copper for that bio-load. Can you get Coppersafe or Copper Power in the UK? I wouldn't use CP because of the wrasse pair.

 

[Pandy]

@Pandy I recommend copper for that bio-load. Can you get Coppersafe or Copper Power in the UK? I wouldn't use CP because of the wrasse pair.

I can get Seachem Cupramine easily if that's any good? Seen that brand on a few pages whilst I've been researching

 

[Humblefish]

I can get Seachem Cupramine easily if that's any good? Seen that brand on a few pages whilst I've been researching

That will work. I just prefer chelated copper for wrasses.

 

[Pandy]

I've had a quick look for chelated copper but not getting many results in the Uk. Will keep looking but I guess I'll have to use Cupramine if push comes to shove.

 

[4FordFamily]

Coppersafe and copper power are two commonly found chelated copper products

 

[Pandy]

Coppersafe and copper power are two commonly found chelated copper products

Struggling to find them in the Uk which is a problem

 

[Pandy]

I've found Waterlife Cuprazin but can't find information on whether its chelated

 

[4FordFamily]

Struggling to find them in the Uk which is a problem

Oh sorry, I thought you were looking for "chelated copper" as a product, sorry for the confusion! Cupramine is better than nothing!

 

[Humblefish]

I've found Waterlife Cuprazin but can't find information on whether its chelated

I would call & ask: http://www.waterlife.co.uk/contact-us?view=foxcontact

You want to know whether Cuprazin is chelated, ionic or pure copper sulfate. If you can give me that info, I can guide you with regards to proper therapeutic levels and which test kit to use.

 

[Pandy]

I have had word back from Waterlife and it is indeed chelated which is good news!

 

[Humblefish]

I have had word back from Waterlife and it is indeed chelated which is good news!

OK you want to treat at 1.5 - 2.0 ppm for 4 weeks. This is the test kit you want: https://www.amazon.co.uk/API-Copper-Cu-Test-Kit/dp/B0006JDWH8/

 

[Pandy]

Brilliant. Thank you very much for your help and advice - it's much appreciated.

 

[Bob Escher]

Do you have any fish left or a fresh body? You could do a freshwater dip on them to check for flukes.

Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes & "Black Ich", Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.


This is what to look for:

Just wondering is the second picture the flukes laying in the bottom of the dip?

I don't have any signs of anything in my tank but in the last 8 days I've lost 5 fish. I also posted video and pictures of the first two that passed and no one knows why.
I also posted a pic of white spots on my tank walls and a couple people thought they were " feather worms"
So just asking

 

[Humblefish]

Just wondering is the second picture the flukes laying in the bottom of the dip?

Yes, they are very small and oval shaped. However, flukes will only turn solid white once exposed to FW. If a fluke is crawling over a fish in SW it will look translucent and thus usually only visible on a dark colored fish (example below).