Unknown Illness Killing Fish

[NigeltheBold]

I have a reef tank that has been established for several years. Recently I'm facing an unknown issue with my fish. Three have died in the past month without showing any symptoms beforehand. I've seen ich before, I've seen velvet and fungus and other problems with visible symptoms before, but I haven't seen any symptoms on the fish that have died or the ones that are still alive.

I've lost a flame Angel, a mystery wrasse, and a copperband butterfly, all seemingly randomly. I don't know what to do. All parameters are in check. I run a media reactor with carbon, but I don't use any other chemical filtration. Skimmer has been acting normally. Fish were eating just fine before dying.

What should I do? How do I treat an illness that I can't identify? Is there a reef safe "blanket" treatment that I could try?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have a reef tank that has been established for several years. Recently I'm facing an unknown issue with my fish. Three have died in the past month without showing any symptoms beforehand. I've seen ich before, I've seen velvet and fungus and other problems with visible symptoms before, but I haven't seen any symptoms on the fish that have died or the ones that are still alive.

I've lost a flame Angel, a mystery wrasse, and a copperband butterfly, all seemingly randomly. I don't know what to do. All parameters are in check. I run a media reactor with carbon, but I don't use any other chemical filtration. Skimmer has been acting normally. Fish were eating just fine before dying.

What should I do? How do I treat an illness that I can't identify? Is there a reef safe "blanket" treatment that I could try?

Pics would be helpful as would any signs such of loss of appetite and heavy breathing , odd behavior, etc

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have a reef tank that has been established for several years. Recently I'm facing an unknown issue with my fish. Three have died in the past month without showing any symptoms beforehand. I've seen ich before, I've seen velvet and fungus and other problems with visible symptoms before, but I haven't seen any symptoms on the fish that have died or the ones that are still alive.

I've lost a flame Angel, a mystery wrasse, and a copperband butterfly, all seemingly randomly. I don't know what to do. All parameters are in check. I run a media reactor with carbon, but I don't use any other chemical filtration. Skimmer has been acting normally. Fish were eating just fine before dying.

What should I do? How do I treat an illness that I can't identify? Is there a reef safe "blanket" treatment that I could try?

The trouble is, the three losses may or may not have been related. If the invertebrates in the tank are all thriving, you can then just focus on fish issues, as water quality issues would hit the invertebrates harder/sooner than the fish.

You need to look for possible similarities in the three losses - if there are none, then there may not have been any relation. Look for symptoms each fish showed before dying, were they breathing fast, flashing, not eating, etc.? Then, compare how long you had had each fish - if fish are dying within 40 to 50 days of acquisition, that implies collection issues like cyanide, or some disease process.

The most common cause of chronic fish loss - where fish just die over time, is flukes. Still, gill flukes will show rapid breathing and skin flukes will show cloudy eyes and rough looking skin.

Jay

 

[NigeltheBold]

Pics would be helpful as would any signs such of loss of appetite and heavy breathing , odd behavior, etc

That's the frustrating part, I don't see any signs. Fish look great and are eating/breathing normally. I'm wondering if it's some kind of internal parasite that's killing the fish.

 

[NigeltheBold]

The trouble is, the three losses may or may not have been related. If the invertebrates in the tank are all thriving, you can then just focus on fish issues, as water quality issues would hit the invertebrates harder/sooner than the fish.

You need to look for possible similarities in the three losses - if there are none, then there may not have been any relation. Look for symptoms each fish showed before dying, were they breathing fast, flashing, not eating, etc.? Then, compare how long you had had each fish - if fish are dying within 40 to 50 days of acquisition, that implies collection issues like cyanide, or some disease process.

The most common cause of chronic fish loss - where fish just die over time, is flukes. Still, gill flukes will show rapid breathing and skin flukes will show cloudy eyes and rough looking skin.

Jay

I honestly can't think of any similarities between the fish that died. I didn't notice any strange behavior, including rapid breathing or flashing. One of the fish I've had for over a year, one was maybe eight months, and the other was relatively new... maybe two months.

Inverts (harlequin shrimp, crocea clam, snails and hermits) are doing fine.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I honestly can't think of any similarities between the fish that died. I didn't notice any strange behavior, including rapid breathing or flashing. One of the fish I've had for over a year, one was maybe eight months, and the other was relatively new... maybe two months.

Inverts (harlequin shrimp, crocea clam, snails and hermits) are doing fine.

I would have to say then, that the losses were not related - not treatable in any event, you should only medicate if you have clear symptoms that point to a specific disease.

I also should have asked - did any fish survive in the tank during these losses? If so, that rules out an epizootic that would infect most/all fish in a given tank.

Jay

 

[jabberwock]

Do you have any aggressive crabs?

 

[NigeltheBold]

I would have to say then, that the losses were not related - not treatable in any event, you should only medicate if you have clear symptoms that point to a specific disease.

I also should have asked - did any fish survive in the tank during these losses? If so, that rules out an epizootic that would infect most/all fish in a given tank.

Jay

Yes, four fish survived and are currently doing just fine.

I guess I'll just keep my fingers crossed and chalk this up to bad luck.

 

[NigeltheBold]

Do you have any aggressive crabs?

Not that I'm aware of. Just some hermits that seem to keep to themselves.

 

[NigeltheBold]

Well, things have changed.

I have five fish remaining in the tank. An ocellaris clown, a target mandarin, a small regal angel, a baby hippo tang, and a moorish idol. All of them are eating well, breathing seems normal, and I haven't seen any behavioral changes. However, I just started noticing some spots on the moorish idol this morning when my blue lights were on. There are also some white spots on the hippo tang, as well as some white blotches and darkening (presumably due to stress.)

I'm pretty sure this is Ich, unfortunately. But I have some pics to help confirm. It's extremely hard to get a picture of the hippo tang, because he's tiny, fast, and likes to hide in the coral anytime he sees me near the tank. But you can see a couple of white spots on his body in this picture:

Here's the moorish idol. He's eating fine, breathing fine, and beahving normally. I've had him for several months:

I wanted to confirm that it's Ich before taking any further action. I can't treat with copper in the DT, and it'll be a nightmare trying to get the clown and hippo out to put into quarantine. So I might try something like Kick Ich first, just to see what happens. The regal angel, the clown and the mandarin don't have any white spots whatsoever.

This would probably explain the deaths of the other fish, however I never noticed any white spots on them at all. Maybe I missed them, or maybe they became sick and died literally overnight.

 

[Troylee]

Any copper band I’ve seen the last year hasn’t came in healthy to begin with.. morosh idle is a very hard fish to keep also! Jay or vet would give ya better advice than me but those 2 fish I would chalk up to collection efforts.

 

[NigeltheBold]

Any copper band I’ve seen the last year hasn’t came in healthy to begin with.. morosh idle is a very hard fish to keep also! Jay or vet would give ya better advice than me but those 2 fish I would chalk up to collection efforts.

I've had pretty decent success with Moorish Idols. The last one I had, I had for about 2.5 years. This one I've had for a few months, and he's been fine up until now. The good news is, he's still eating. If he dies, I may not get another one.

I probably won't try another copperband. I've had mixed results with them over the years. The one that died recently was doing well and then died suddenly, without symptoms. I found him dead on the sandbed one morning and I was really surprised.

If I can get the infected fish (idol and hippo tang) to survive this bout of Ich, I may attempt the "Ich control" tactic instead of trying to eradicate it from the DT. It seems like it's really hard to completely avoid, even if you're being careful.

@Jay Hemdal does this look like Ich to you? Just want to confirm.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I've had pretty decent success with Moorish Idols. The last one I had, I had for about 2.5 years. This one I've had for a few months, and he's been fine up until now. The good news is, he's still eating. If he dies, I may not get another one.

I probably won't try another copperband. I've had mixed results with them over the years. The one that died recently was doing well and then died suddenly, without symptoms. I found him dead on the sandbed one morning and I was really surprised.

If I can get the infected fish (idol and hippo tang) to survive this bout of Ich, I may attempt the "Ich control" tactic instead of trying to eradicate it from the DT. It seems like it's really hard to completely avoid, even if you're being careful.

@Jay Hemdal does this look like Ich to you? Just want to confirm.

Yes - that does look like ich on the idol.

Jay