Flow Calculations - Pump / Advertised numbers accurate?

denierlexiese

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Recently purchased an artica jbj chiller 1/4 DBE-200. It's minimum flow rate is 480 gph. I figured no problem my return dc pump is rated for 2000 gph, [ but it also feeds the ext. skimmer, and cheato rector. ]

When I used a empty gallon of milk container to calculate flow rate I was getting only 250 gph @ level 1, and 280 gph @ level 10 on the dc pump. I don't believe there is much head pressure because the chiller is on the floor, and the return pump is in the sump. So then I isolated the return pump, in a test area in my kitchen - on the floor, and discovered that at max rate gph i seem to get out of the pump itself [with the 1 gallon milk carton timed method] is 480 gph @ level 10. So then I started pulling out other pumps from the closet, old ac pumps rated at 2000 gph too, and they too took between 10-12 seconds to fill a milk carton - so only 400 ish gph.

Has anyone extensively tested the flow rate on their pumps? [ I hope BRS does an episode at some point of actual flow rates of various pumps ]
Is this consistent with your findings?
Has any clue why my gph numbers seem to be so low?
Is there a better way to calculate flow [ I bought an arduino flow meter rated up to 900 gph ] - is there any other cheap off the shelf solution to get realtime gph for testing?

I'm testing with a 5 gallon bucket on the floor - I would think that is minimal back pressure since it's max vertical is probably 1.5 feet. about 6 ft of tubing, on the floor for both the in and the out - 3/4 inch diameter.

Do I not understand back pressure correctly?

Do chillers really need 480 gph minimum? Or is that recommendation for a pump market rating - not actual performance? Can I get away with a pump rated at 2000 gph, but real world testing seems to indicate only 250 gph?
 

ispookie666

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My Jebao DC 4000 at 6th led put out 400lph through my Teko1000 chiller the connectors are 16/22mm, if it go all the way it would hit 600 tops.

That's 1/7th of the advertised flow. These DC pumps don't do well with head pressure.
The same for Ecotech.
 

ca1ore

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The problem with slow flow though a chiller is that, depending on the location of the temperature probe, it can either short cycle or even ice up. Flow ranges are a function of chiller size. In terms of your flow testing, hard to say. Most DC pumps are designed for flow (rather than pressure) so unless you go native out of the pump and maintain that throughout the run, losses can be significant. My chiller is native 1 1/2" and it costs me about 100 gph on a pressure rated pump; on a flow pump where the chiller plumbing is 3/4" I could easily see a sizable loss. Even with just 3/4" tubing, if the pump is 1 1/4" native (like the Vectra M1 as example) you are going to get poor performance. This is why, in part, I have long been skeptical of any real energy savings form DC pumps.
 
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denierlexiese

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@ispookie666 , that's below the stated minimum rate of 132 gph on Teco's website. Did you just run the chiller below the minimum rate? Are these chiller manufactures taking into account head pressure? Or just stating buy a pump a 0ft head pressure that has X rating?
 

ispookie666

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I'm running this on a 500L system...
The chiller is able to cope well, I think 400 is the minimum.
It was still able to cool when I was running at 200lph.
What I don't understand is why do they want us to use these narrow tubing. I think the Teko one has 3/4" connector to 16mm [emoji849]


I'm using a GHL Flow sensor.

Anyone saying they have 10x turnover through sump with a big standard pump had no idea about actual flow rates [emoji4]
 
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denierlexiese

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@ca1ore Here's the chiller I have.

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/jbj-arctica-chiller-1-4-hp.html
It currently has hooked up what BRS states as the highest barb size of 3/4 of the 3 sizes provided, 1/2,5/8, and 3/4.

It looks like according to this site the best I'll get out of 3/4 inch braided hose is 660 gph. If that's true through the chiller I'm getting at the least 200 gph loss, calculated at the output when i ramp the pump up to level 10.
https://www.hy-techroofdrains.com/water-flow-through-a-pipe/
 

ispookie666

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What's the ID of your barb that would be your limiting factor.
You can add all the bends and could inside the chiller and you are looking at serious head losses.
Most of the manufacturer claims are e.g.
DC4000 at 0 head pressure
At 3m the flow is 0.
I'm seriously thinking of heading back to AC pumps
 
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denierlexiese

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@ispookie666, so you are saying perhaps I shouldn't worry so much. I tested the chiller on my freshwater tank, running at 300 gph, vs the 480 gph minimum rating, and it seem to cool the tank, and run fine. I don't know...
 
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denierlexiese

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@ispookie666 my current input, output barb is 3/4 inch right? because the tubing is 3/4 inch tubing. Or is the internal diamter of the tubing 1/2 or 5/8 because the tubing is 3/4. I can double check when i get home.
 

ispookie666

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I think you should be fine.

When I put mine on -i started with Maxijet 800 then to Eheim 1000 then maxijet 1200 and finally to dc4000.

With the less powerful ones, my chiller was constantly cycling.

Inner diameter is going to be far less more like 1/2.

I'm on this side of the pond hence use litres and mm [emoji4]
 

mcarroll

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I'm testing with a 5 gallon bucket on the floor - I would think that is minimal back pressure since it's max vertical is probably 1.5 feet. about 6 ft of tubing, on the floor for both the in and the out - 3/4 inch diameter.

Do I not understand back pressure correctly?

Back pressure comes mostly from two places....the height the pump has to push against....and the friction the water generates by flowing through plumbing.

Height is pretty self explanatory.

Friction seems more mysterious, but it's not that mysterious. ;) Total length of plumbing and the specific parts used in plumbing can make a difference to friction loss, but the size of the plumbing itself can have an overriding effect.

Check out the friction-loss calculator here to run simulations: http://www.freecalc.com/fric.htm

For an example calculation, here's 500 GPH (8 GPM) into 6' of 3/4" PVC pipe with a small compliment of likely fittings. +1.3 feet of headloss on top of the vertical lift. Merely switching up to 1" plumbing takes that to <+.5 feet....insignificant.
Pressure Loss (psi): 0.58 Head Loss (ft): 1.3
Line Number:
Date: 7/25/2018
Nominal Pipe Size: 0.75
Pipe Schedule: SCH 40
Flow Rate (gpm): 8
Viscosity (cP): 1
Specific Gravity (water=1): 1.025
Temperature (F): 79
Pipe Roughness (ft): 0.000016
Actual Pipe ID (in.): 0.824
Fluid Velocity (ft/sec): 4.82
Reynolds Number: 31472
Flow Region: Turbulent
Friction Factor: 0.024
Overall K: 3.66
Piping Length (ft): 6
Short Radius Elbows: 3
Ball : 1
 

ca1ore

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I tested my Panworld 200 when I first got it with both the 5 gallon bucket approach and using flow sensors. Former got me 1,650 gph; latter 1,600. So broadly where I'd expect a pump rated at 1,750 at zero head pressure. I net 1,250 after head and back pressure losses; BUT, it's a pressure-rated pump with decades of availability.
 

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