Getting Parameters in Check, Alk and Nutrient Export

ReeferRoo · Jun 26, 2017

So I have had 3 issues that I haven't addressed...
1. low alk, 6.7 with 10% weekly water changed since a month or two after I started. I have been adding in Seachem Reef Complete and Seachem Plus since I started adding corals, everything has been growing and is very healthy.
2. Red Cyano Bloom in my Fuge, yes I am keeping the lights on in the off hours to help maintain PH and keep the cyano growth in the fuge. (I know it isn't just isolated in the fuge but it's the only place it is sticking due to the low flow).
4. Moderately High ORP, it hovers between 450 and 480 cycles throughout the day, not sure I am going to address this now...

That being said, this weekend I decided to go to war with the first two issues...but I am the slow and steady type...and not going to make any fast changes since everything is thriving, no instant buffers, no massive large water changes on the same day.

Then Plan...for ALK...

1. Start checking Parameters, so I picked up a Red Sea Foundation Pro Testing Kit...haven't tested anything yet...Will start tonight and continue on a weekly basis check Cal, Alk, Mag.
2. Setup my DOS to perform automatic water changes with an aggressive 5 Gallons per day for the next 28 days (started yesterday). This will mean I have in essence moved the entire system volume. in the 28 days, approx 25% per week.
3. Assuming Alk gets up to 8 or 8.3 then roll onto 2 GPD Water changes with the DOS system and test daily to see what parameters do after that for 2 weeks. I they stay stable with the 2 gpd water changes then I will just leave it, if there is drop off in Alk then I will look into dosing.

The Plan...for Red Cyano...

1. Continue Checking for Phosphate, I have been checking phosphates and running GFO since the start. Originally because of the Pukani the phosphates were at .25, by the time the cycle was done it was .03, still running GFO and it has been maintaining, I also have been feeding the inverts so I am sure that is adding to it.
2. pulled my filter socks, I was developing a bad habbit of not changing them beyond once a week, this should help keep stuff in suspension longer for the skimmer.
3. Need to use the turkey baster to pull out settle debris from the sump floor, good bad or indifferent.
3. started running the skimmer 24 hours vs 2 shifts @ 6 hours each.
4. Piggy packing off the heavy Automatic Water Change for additional nutrient export.

The Plan...for ORP...

1. No Plan...kinda hoping it falls inline with the reduction of the Red Cyano, not really sure if there is any science to that thought but it sounds plausible...and yes, I have checked and cleaned the sensor.

I will post parameters when I take them later tonight.

jsker · Jun 27, 2017

Looks like you have a good plan,

The auto water change should do wonders for everything

ReeferRoo · Jun 29, 2017

@jsker thanks for the support and confirmation of my plan. I still havent checked parameters...life has just been in the way...

glb · Jun 29, 2017

Do you know why the alk is low? Do you have a lot of corals? How is the calcium related to alk? Magnesium? Randy Holmes-Farley has some great articles about this in the Reef Chemistry forum. Good luck!

jsker · Jun 29, 2017

ReeferRoo said:
@jsker thanks for the support and confirmation of my plan. I still havent checked parameters...life has just been in the way...

I can understand that

ReeferRoo · Jun 29, 2017

@glb
To be honest I don't know why alk is low, I have the test kits, just haven't actually done the tests, as everything is growing and looks great and I don't want to get into a panic of specific parameter chasing and cause an issue, I have read some of Randy's articles, very informative reads!

My reason for not obsessing over the individual parameters is because one thing may be completely off, like Calcium. Originally during cycle all the parameters we spec, as the tank has had added inhabitants, corals and inverts only this far, I did start to notice the decline in my alk around the end of the first month of my cycle, mot likely precipitation and it stabilized around 8.5 until I started adding corals and inverts. Since then it declined to the mid 6's and stabilized there.

Here is my DT at the moment.

13 Frags, a frogspawn with 2 mature heads and 11 baby heads, a golden torch with 3 heads (the thing never closes up so I have no idea if there are new heads forming, 1 alveopora in the center of the tank the size of a 4 year olds fist, and a small plate with colonies of misc Zoas and pink/green daisy clove polyps. so...18 corals all together, I wouldn't not define this as a lot...I do have another 13 frags from Reef-a-Palooza, NY in QT...

here is QT...initial water is from the DT and water changes are 5% DT and 5% fresh mix to help keep things stable and ready for transition. Alk bounces between 6.5 and 7 based on those methods.

1 Dragon Soul Torch, 1 Sun Coral, 4 SPS, 1 Ricordea, 4 Zoas, 1 Clove

My intuition, based on the fact that my fresh mix's Alk is consistent around 11dkh, instant ocean, my 20% changes bring my Alk up to around 7.5 to 7.7 then 2 weeks later back down to 6.7-6.5. Sand bed is not calcifying from precipitation but I have noticed what I think to be some precipitation/calcification under the shelf on the right where the glue is now pure white vs clear/glassy, probably one of the lowest flow areas in the DT that I have beyond the sump which has no signs of calcification, just a lush carpet of red cyano that has been slower and slower to come back as I remove the mats. Phosphates are .03-0, there is definitely nutrient imbalance due to not having fish in the DT, we feed the inverts and corals 2x per week. That changes tonight when my clowns,which have been in the fish QT, move into the DT, they get fed every other day.

My intention is to start testing Mag and Cal on weekly basis for tracking, I started the AWC of 5gpd on Sunday, total system volume is around 140 gallons, as of last night I changed out 20 gallons (approx 14%), this weekend I will be sure to retest ALK when I do the other tests . I have noticed my APEX readings for PH have slowly begun to elevate from 7.5-7.8 to 7.8 to 8.05 since I started the AWC so I believe the other parameters are moving towards the textbook "normal" range as well.

I expect as the tank and corals mature, dosing to maintain alk will be a requirement beyond the water changes. I can't see it being a necessity at the moment based on coral health and growth, However I will post all parameters as soon as I test them and again for weekly progress tracking. I am sure my jaw will hit the floor when I see how low Cal and Mag are...

glb · Jun 29, 2017

ReeferRoo said:
@glb
To be honest I don't know why alk is low, I have the test kits, just haven't actually done the tests, as everything is growing and looks great and I don't want to get into a panic of specific parameter chasing and cause an issue, I have read some of Randy's articles, very informative reads!

My reason for not obsessing over the individual parameters is because one thing may be completely off, like Calcium. Originally during cycle all the parameters we spec, as the tank has had added inhabitants, corals and inverts only this far, I did start to notice the decline in my alk around the end of the first month of my cycle, mot likely precipitation and it stabilized around 8.5 until I started adding corals and inverts. Since then it declined to the mid 6's and stabilized there.

Here is my DT at the moment.

13 Frags, a frogspawn with 2 mature heads and 11 baby heads, a golden torch with 3 heads (the thing never closes up so I have no idea if there are new heads forming, 1 alveopora in the center of the tank the size of a 4 year olds fist, and a small plate with colonies of misc Zoas and pink/green daisy clove polyps. so...18 corals all together, I wouldn't not define this as a lot...I do have another 13 frags from Reef-a-Palooza, NY in QT...

here is QT...initial water is from the DT and water changes are 5% DT and 5% fresh mix to help keep things stable and ready for transition. Alk bounces between 6.5 and 7 based on those methods.

1 Dragon Soul Torch, 1 Sun Coral, 4 SPS, 1 Ricordea, 4 Zoas, 1 Clove

My intuition, based on the fact that my fresh mix's Alk is consistent around 11dkh, instant ocean, my 20% changes bring my Alk up to around 7.5 to 7.7 then 2 weeks later back down to 6.7-6.5. Sand bed is not calcifying from precipitation but I have noticed what I think to be some precipitation/calcification under the shelf on the right where the glue is now pure white vs clear/glassy, probably one of the lowest flow areas in the DT that I have beyond the sump which has no signs of calcification, just a lush carpet of red cyano that has been slower and slower to come back as I remove the mats. Phosphates are .03-0, there is definitely nutrient imbalance due to not having fish in the DT, we feed the inverts and corals 2x per week. That changes tonight when my clowns,which have been in the fish QT, move into the DT, they get fed every other day.

My intention is to start testing Mag and Cal on weekly basis for tracking, I started the AWC of 5gpd on Sunday, total system volume is around 140 gallons, as of last night I changed out 20 gallons (approx 14%), this weekend I will be sure to retest ALK when I do the other tests . I have noticed my APEX readings for PH have slowly begun to elevate from 7.5-7.8 to 7.8 to 8.05 since I started the AWC so I believe the other parameters are moving towards the textbook "normal" range as well.

I expect as the tank and corals mature, dosing to maintain alk will be a requirement beyond the water changes. I can't see it being a necessity at the moment based on coral health and growth, However I will post all parameters as soon as I test them and again for weekly progress tracking. I am sure my jaw will hit the floor when I see how low Cal and Mag are...

It will be interesting to see how alk/ca/mg measure out. In my experience, keeping alk in check is the most important thing for maintaining stability. Your calcium may be low because the corals are using it up. I'd aim for 8-12kh. Is is possible that your alk testing kit is off? If everything in the tank looks good, that could be a possibility.

ReeferRoo · Jun 30, 2017

@glb

I have 2 hanna checkers (Dkh and mg/l), Salifert and 2 Red Sea Kits, I haven't used the Red Sea Foundation Pro Kit but the 2 Hanna checkers, the Salifert and the basic Red Sea kit all come back on spot with each other be it either mg/l or Dkh. So I doubt it is the kits.

I agree that alk has a large play in stability and my coral growth, I tend to feel that I get better growth right after I do my water changes so I think you are 100% right there.

Your feed back has got me thinking that I may have been light on the manual 20% water changes (every other week) in combination with the consumption by corals put me in this position. So Alk dosing maybe sooner than later, regardless I want to get the heavy (5% daily) AWC's done for nutrient export.

I noticed last night I have some small groups of green hair algae starting in my sump where some cyano is dissipating. I actually cleaned out the cyano in the fuge last night and threw a mean/large emerald crab into the sump, as we moved our clowns into the DT last night from QT. I didn't want the crab to attack the clowns as he had a rep for being aggressive. He can now survive on a diet of cyano, green hair algae and Cheato (he likes Cheato) or picking through the filter socks. I also a little Brown algae on my sand bed in he DT but really nothing else, seem to really be keeping the nasties in the sump, probably because I have high flow in the DT. So basically normal Algae cycle from what I have read.

Ultimately knowing what my Alk an related parameters are as I move to the 20% AWC schedule will be good as I start messing with dosing. I have 3 Weeks left on my 3.5%/Day (5Gal) water changes so over the weekend I will be ordering my dosing containers and BRS 2 Part Calcium & Alk total package while everyone is having their sales. That gives me time to get the stuff set up and learn how to use my GHLdoser2 unit. When I see what levels are at when I move to my 1.5%(2gpd) water changes I should be able to dos and not mess up my tank...lol. I am sure I will manually dose the system daily when I start as I may have to adjust levels based on daily consumption. I will gladly keep a spread sheet of my measurements and any other things you think I should record starting this weekend and post results as I get them. I am sure I will also be asking for confirmation of my dosing amounts when I get there based on the results that I get once I settle into my 2 gpd schedule.

glb · Jun 30, 2017

ReeferRoo said:
@glb

I have 2 hanna checkers (Dkh and mg/l), Salifert and 2 Red Sea Kits, I haven't used the Red Sea Foundation Pro Kit but the 2 Hanna checkers, the Salifert and the basic Red Sea kit all come back on spot with each other be it either mg/l or Dkh. So I doubt it is the kits.

I agree that alk has a large play in stability and my coral growth, I tend to feel that I get better growth right after I do my water changes so I think you are 100% right there.

Your feed back has got me thinking that I may have been light on the manual 20% water changes (every other week) in combination with the consumption by corals put me in this position. So Alk dosing maybe sooner than later, regardless I want to get the heavy (5% daily) AWC's done for nutrient export.

I noticed last night I have some small groups of green hair algae starting in my sump where some cyano is dissipating. I actually cleaned out the cyano in the fuge last night and threw a mean/large emerald crab into the sump, as we moved our clowns into the DT last night from QT. I didn't want the crab to attack the clowns as he had a rep for being aggressive. He can now survive on a diet of cyano, green hair algae and Cheato (he likes Cheato) or picking through the filter socks. I also a little Brown algae on my sand bed in he DT but really nothing else, seem to really be keeping the nasties in the sump, probably because I have high flow in the DT. So basically normal Algae cycle from what I have read.

Ultimately knowing what my Alk an related parameters are as I move to the 20% AWC schedule will be good as I start messing with dosing. I have 3 Weeks left on my 3.5%/Day (5Gal) water changes so over the weekend I will be ordering my dosing containers and BRS 2 Part Calcium & Alk total package while everyone is having their sales. That gives me time to get the stuff set up and learn how to use my GHLdoser2 unit. When I see what levels are at when I move to my 1.5%(2gpd) water changes I should be able to dos and not mess up my tank...lol. I am sure I will manually dose the system daily when I start as I may have to adjust levels based on daily consumption. I will gladly keep a spread sheet of my measurements and any other things you think I should record starting this weekend and post results as I get them. I am sure I will also be asking for confirmation of my dosing amounts when I get there based on the results that I get once I settle into my 2 gpd schedule.

Sounds like a plan. FWIW, you'll probably find that dosing is quicker and cheaper than bigger water changes. I'd suggest a 10% water change weekly plus dosing. Keep us posted on how it's going!

ReeferRoo · Jun 30, 2017

@gbl

Newbie here...FWIW?

and I would agree...dosing will be cheaper, I just want to get the cyano under control and don't want to rush too many things at once since everything is alive and healthy.

glb · Jun 30, 2017

ReeferRoo said:
@gbl

Newbie here...FWIW?

and I would agree...dosing will be cheaper, I just want to get the cyano under control and don't want to rush too many things at once since everything is alive and healthy.

Sorry! FWIW is for what it's worth.

ReeferRoo · Jun 30, 2017

glb said:
It will be interesting to see how alk/ca/mg measure out. In my experience, keeping alk in check is the most important thing for maintaining stability. Your calcium may be low because the corals are using it up. I'd aim for 8-12kh. Is is possible that your alk testing kit is off? If everything in the tank looks good, that could be a possibility.

Thanks for that clarification...I was thinking in terms of reefing stuff...

Fresh Water Improves ___ ....
First Wrasse is Wonderful
Forget Water it's Wasteful

I had a dozen things running through my head, and never even paid attention to the following context...;Facepalm

Sometimes I wonder how I made it this far...

ReeferRoo · Jul 1, 2017

Okay just took parameters in all my tanks...primary focus was the DT

DT -
Date - 7/1
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
PH - 7.7
Alk - 7 dkh
Cal - 320
Mg - 1240
Salinity - 1.025
So Alk is improving with the 5gpd water changes (3.5%) i will check again in a few days to see how Alk, Ca and Mg are looking to compare.

For haha's - Fish QT
Date - 7/1
Ammonia - 0
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 25
PH - 8
Alk - 9
Ca - 375
Mg - 1560
Salinity - 1.025

And the Coral QT, looks to be going through a mini cycle

Date - 7/1
Ammonia - 1
NO2 - .35
NO3 - 2
PH - 8
Alk -7.5
Ca - 420
Mg - 1280
Salinity - 1.026

Gotta run out and get some Amguard or something for the coral QT and do a 10% water change. Everything else seems to either be good or going in the right direction...or so i think. Not to worried about the Ca readings in the fish QT.