Going Skimmerless: What do I need to know?

[Treefer32]

I have a 350 gallon mixed reef with around 17 fish including 3 large tangs. I was doing a bunch of cleaning today and managed to shear the plastic pipe where the threaded union is to attach the pump. I was just trying to loosen the union to get it to turn so I could easily screw and unscrew the pump. (I had to take the skimmer out and unscrew the pump by turning the pump instead of unscrewing the union. I took it out to the garage and hosed down the whole skimmer with hot water and vinegar. Trying to clean the inside and outside. I gently tapped the union trying to get it to loosen up and instead the whole pipe sheered off.

So, in anger I set the skimmer aside and realized I have a lot more room in my sump. (The skimmer took up half of my 75 gallon sump.) I run a Turbo Aquatics L4 algae turf scrubber, and a 25 micron cannister filter I clean every 2-3 weeks. I have been doing 1-2 20-25 gallon water changes a week.

Nitrates were around 16-20 and phosphates around .12 -.16 with no visible algae on the display other than on the glass. PH has been running 8.05 to 8.24 on a daily basis. Any suggestions for running skimmerless successfully. The pump is good. So, I guess if I can get a replacement skimmer a lot cheaper and reuse the pump. I'm not willing to shell out $600-700 (what I originally paid for the skimmer) to replace it. Can I use the bricks I've seeing for added filtration? Or was the skimmer doing so little I have nothing to worry about?

 

[Ron Reefman]

How much the skimmer was doing for you is about how much skimmate you made and whether it was wet or dry.

Even on a 350g tank, I don't think you need a $700 skimmer. But I also wouldn't run a mix reef tank that size without a skimmer.

Good luck.

 

[Treefer32]

How much the skimmer was doing for you is about how much skimmate you made and whether it was wet or dry.

Even on a 350g tank, I don't think you need a $700 skimmer. But I also wouldn't run a mix reef tank that size without a skimmer.

Good luck.

Thanks Ron, I had a Diablo DC skimmer rated for 500 gallons. I wasn't religious about cleaning out the cup, I had a hose and ran the skimmate to a 5 gallon pale and used a optical sensor to shut off the skimmer if it got full. It was a pain to get dialed in, it was extremely sensitive, so I ended up running fairly dry with a half inch layer of caked on crap on the skimmer cup every couple of months. It probably was doing something, more worried about the oxygenation. But that's probably taken care of through the powerheads water flowing between the return and the tank. Around 20 feet of piping for the water to flow through and get air.

 

[jda]

Heavy metals from food, and other sources, can built up if you are not skimming them out - many bind to organics and get removed this way.

Gas exchange will not be as good. Will it matter? Who knows? I would expect the pH to drop a bit.

Organics wil break down into more N and P - you will need to export more if you want to keep them where they are.

 

[blasterman]

If your skimmer wasn't pulling much dry skim out then the effect of disabling it is minimal. Common sense. Another litmus I use is water clarity and tint. If tank water in a white bucket is perfectly clear then DOCs are likely minimal.

Just watch your nitrate levels. They are typically the first indication of an issue with a skimmerless tank.

The amount of gas exchange a skimmer provides on a tank that big trivial.

Heavy metals bind with solids and eventually precipitate in the substrate. Another non issue.

Turf scrubbers and cheato balls suck a lot of DOCs out of your tank, but its stability that counts.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Watch Phos and nitrate levels and plan on extra testing and water changes

 

[DxMarinefish]

I have been running skimless since 2007.
6 months ago when I bought a Tunze 9410 DC for extra aeration and for emergencies, but the skimmer skims back into the tank. I don’t collect!

I have a 250g system with two custom built ATS that take care of my filtration, with each run for two weeks before cleaning (so I clean each every other week).

Skim or not, high or low nutrients = is all about stability.
As you are moving from skim to skimless just test and observe.

 

[Treefer32]

I have been running skimless since 2007.
6 months ago when I bought a Tunze 9410 DC for extra aeration and for emergencies, but the skimmer skims back into the tank. I don’t collect!

I have a 250g system with two custom built ATS that take care of my filtration, with each run for two weeks before cleaning (so I clean each every other week).

Skim or not, high or low nutrients = is all about stability.
As you are moving from skim to skimless just test and observe.

Thanks, I wish I had sprung for the next step up of scrubber. It's full in 6-7 days with the LEDs at 3/4 power. So, I just cranked them up to max and will monitor if scrubber starts filling up in 3-4 days, then, I know there's more nitrates. I'll test nitrates more. I think the display will tell me if there's more nutrients. I also am going to see about repairing the skimmer. I think I can fix it with some acrylic cement possibly. We'll see. I'll also go a week or two without the skimmer to see how things are doing.

 

[arking_mark]

Unless you're using the skimmer to oxygenate your water with a CO2 scrubber, I'm not sure your skimmers are very beneficial to your system.

Jury out on skimmers?

To skim or not to skim that is the question. I have head many conflicting reports on the use of skimmers while employing an ATS. I know the so called...

www.algaescrubbing.com

For nutrient control, it seems to mostly pulls out microflora which do concentrate P, N, and C nutrients from the water column, and so their removal via skimming does constitute a means of nutrient export.

However, activated carbon is way more efficient at removing TOC and a refugium is way more effective for nutrient control.

 

[Treefer32]

Unless you're using the skimmer to oxygenate your water with a CO2 scrubber, I'm not sure your skimmers are very beneficial to your system.

Jury out on skimmers?

To skim or not to skim that is the question. I have head many conflicting reports on the use of skimmers while employing an ATS. I know the so called...

www.algaescrubbing.com

For nutrient control, it seems to mostly pulls out microflora which do concentrate P, N, and C nutrients from the water column, and so their removal via skimming does constitute a means of nutrient export.

However, activated carbon is way more efficient at removing TOC and a refugium is way more effective for nutrient control.

this is great. I ordered some acrylic glue to repair my skimmer. I might test to make sure it works in a bucket of waste water, but, I'm questioning the need for it with an established ATS. 5 days now without a skimmer and I see nothing I didn't have problems with the skimmer. I have some diatoms I'm struggling to eliminate in a low flow area. But, other than that, no massive algae outbreak or any adverse signs with PH. All parameters are staying stable without the skimmer. I'm starting to question the efficacy of having a skimmer and turf scrubber. I thought with a 350 gallon system both were needed as supplemental filtration. I'm questioning the truth to that or if it's just for marine stores to sell more equipment... I may leave the skimmer out for a month and see if nutrients build up. I'll maintain water changes as a supplemental export system.

 

[arking_mark]

this is great. I ordered some acrylic glue to repair my skimmer. I might test to make sure it works in a bucket of waste water, but, I'm questioning the need for it with an established ATS. 5 days now without a skimmer and I see nothing I didn't have problems with the skimmer. I have some diatoms I'm struggling to eliminate in a low flow area. But, other than that, no massive algae outbreak or any adverse signs with PH. All parameters are staying stable without the skimmer. I'm starting to question the efficacy of having a skimmer and turf scrubber. I thought with a 350 gallon system both were needed as supplemental filtration. I'm questioning the truth to that or if it's just for marine stores to sell more equipment... I may leave the skimmer out for a month and see if nutrients build up. I'll maintain water changes as a supplemental export system.

I'm beginning to think Skimmers are super over hyped for what they are able to do.

 

[Treefer32]

I'm beginning to think Skimmers are super over hyped for what they are able to do.

You and me both. I always wondered how skimmers know the difference between good (trace elements) vs. bad (detritous) to be removed from the water. They don't, so, I wondered if skimmers perpetuate the need for water changes because they remove beneficial elements from the water that are needed for corals. I'm noticing some of my acans getting brighter, bigger, just in the last 5 days than they have been in the last two years of having the skimmer.

And I'll save money on electricity of not having 130 watt pump running 24/7. (I always ran it at max).

 

[arking_mark]

You and me both. I always wondered how skimmers know the difference between good (trace elements) vs. bad (detritous) to be removed from the water. They don't, so, I wondered if skimmers perpetuate the need for water changes because they remove beneficial elements from the water that are needed for corals. I'm noticing some of my acans getting brighter, bigger, just in the last 5 days than they have been in the last two years of having the skimmer.

And I'll save money on electricity of not having 130 watt pump running 24/7. (I always ran it at max).

I added a sand-sifting goby to my tank that has started to stir things up with the sand...the coral is loving it. But I'm a stickler for water changes right now and do an incremental AWC. I'm trying to minimize the water changes using Triton Method with core 7...but all changes show be taken very slowly.

 

[Treefer32]

I added a sand-sifting goby to my tank that has started to stir things up with the sand...the coral is loving it. But I'm a stickler for water changes right now and do an incremental AWC. I'm trying to minimize the water changes using Triton Method with core 7...but all changes show be taken very slowly.

That's my goal. I'm going to try for a month and see what adverse things happen, if any. I can switch to running rinsed carbon in my cannister filter instead of purigen. I'm not sure how much Purigen helps with filtration. I liked that it was rechargeable with bleech. but, don't know if it actually is doing anything. heh.

As to the sand bed. Heh, I think I have a goby and two pistol shrimp under the rocks. (I haven't seen either in 6 months). However, there are all kinds of tunnels under my rocks. There's one big enough now that some of smaller fish squeeze under and swim to the back of the tank now. That tells me the shrimp and goby are still hard at moving the sand.

My Dragon wrasse also, gets bored and digs.. More like burrows. He's made his way to the egg crate under my rocks and has tried pulling the egg crate loos. Every now and then I see a piece of plastic broken off from the egg crate. I have to assume the Dragon wrasse pulled it off. There's sand storms 2-3 times a day. So, my sand bed is always looking pristine now. . . Probably doesn't help grow anarobic bacteria. But, keeps the sand turned over...

 

[DxMarinefish]

I'm beginning to think Skimmers are super over hyped for what they are able to do.

What I think is happening over the last few years or so is the realisation by an increasing many that the “reef” tanks we spend so much money, time and effort is more complex than what so many “forum” science would let us believe.

the food web is intricate and complex and we only have some pieces of the puzzle.

While skimmers or most mechanical filtration apparatus for that matter do export particulates, DOC and such, we now realise that these form a fundamental part of the food chain puzzle.

 

[DxMarinefish]

You and me both. I always wondered how skimmers know the difference between good (trace elements) vs. bad (detritous) to be removed from the water. They don't, so, I wondered if skimmers perpetuate the need for water changes because they remove beneficial elements from the water that are needed for corals. I'm noticing some of my acans getting brighter, bigger, just in the last 5 days than they have been in the last two years of having the skimmer.

And I'll save money on electricity of not having 130 watt pump running 24/7. (I always ran it at max).

I have not done water changes since 2007.

I do use the DT water to setup any temporary quarantine tank and replace what is used with NSW, but this only happens about 2-3 times per year, and each no more that 70 litres.

 

[DxMarinefish]

I added a sand-sifting goby to my tank that has started to stir things up with the sand...the coral is loving it. But I'm a stickler for water changes right now and do an incremental AWC. I'm trying to minimize the water changes using Triton Method with core 7...but all changes show be taken very slowly.

I ran a hybrid zeovit system as an experiment with no water change for 12 months. Did not see any improvements.

I am currently running the Triton System but with 2x ATS.
It’s simpler and very stable 6 months on.

still no water changes.

 

[arking_mark]

I ran a hybrid zeovit system as an experiment with no water change for 12 months. Did not see any improvements.

I am currently running the Triton System but with 2x ATS.
It’s simpler and very stable 6 months on.

still no water changes.

Why algae turf scrubber over a simpler refugium? They seem like more work to me.

 

[Garf]

I dont know if Floyd from Turbos Aquatics would recommend it, but I ran an airline into my ATS feed pump. Grew algae like it was going out of fashion. Win, win.

 

[ReefHomieJon]

That's my goal. I'm going to try for a month and see what adverse things happen, if any. I can switch to running rinsed carbon in my cannister filter instead of purigen. I'm not sure how much Purigen helps with filtration. I liked that it was rechargeable with bleech. but, don't know if it actually is doing anything. heh.

As to the sand bed. Heh, I think I have a goby and two pistol shrimp under the rocks. (I haven't seen either in 6 months). However, there are all kinds of tunnels under my rocks. There's one big enough now that some of smaller fish squeeze under and swim to the back of the tank now. That tells me the shrimp and goby are still hard at moving the sand.

My Dragon wrasse also, gets bored and digs.. More like burrows. He's made his way to the egg crate under my rocks and has tried pulling the egg crate loos. Every now and then I see a piece of plastic broken off from the egg crate. I have to assume the Dragon wrasse pulled it off. There's sand storms 2-3 times a day. So, my sand bed is always looking pristine now. . . Probably doesn't help grow anarobic bacteria. But, keeps the sand turned over...

Purigen basically does what a slimmer does. Bonds up organica so they dont break down Into nitrates in your system . Doesnt help with gas exchange tho