Going slow approach

[riche]

So with this new build I told my wife and myself I was going to go slow, do everything right.

So I am finally at the cycling stage and I am more confused then ever.

I have read so many post and articles and still not 100% sure.

So I filled the tank with ro/di water last week, then mixed reef crystal 1.026 , added dry aragonite and bleached dry rock.

Let it run till last night when I added a piece of live rock from the LFS to the sump.

Today I added Fritz turbo start 900

So where I’m confused is should I be dosing ammonia to feed the Fritz or would I be okay adding a pair of clowns this weekend.

It’s a 40 breeder with a 30 gallon sump

Also while I’m in the cycle I should keep the lights off correct? I have had them off since I filled the tank, but I was thinking that the lights might help create diatoms and algae to help with the cycle.

Now with all that being said, I shouldn’t be doing any water changes until all test come back good correct?

Last couple times I have had saltwater tanks, I never took this approach. I added sand and some live rock and a few days later started adding fish. Never lost anything just battled the ugly stage

 

[Dom]

Going slow is the only way to go, IMO. Its a tough thing to do in a society who lives on credit cards and requires instant gratification. Good for you!

 

[shookONES]

IMO, you don’t want to use liverock and Fritz at the same time. The unique bacteria strains in each with compete. If it were me, I’d get some freshwater mollies acclimated to saltwater, and let the tank stew for a few weeks with light feedings and minimal light.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

Going slow in this hobby is always better than going fast! It can be easy to want to skip steps or rush to do X with your tank. Going slow allows you to see mistakes that you might end up making and allows for everything to settle naturally.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

So where I’m confused is should I be dosing ammonia to feed the Fritz or would I be okay adding a pair of clowns this weekend.

Adding fish this weekend kind of sounds like rushing to me if the tank is only been cycling one week. What are the parameters? The ammonia and nitrate level determine when the cycle is done. Do you have your own test kits? I usually add a pinch of flake food and bacteria and wait 3-4 weeks before adding my first fish.

 

[exnisstech]

IMO, you don’t want to use liverock and Fritz at the same time. The unique bacteria strains in each with compete. If it were me, I’d get some freshwater mollies acclimated to saltwater, and let the tank stew for a few weeks with light feedings and minimal light.

My experience with Fritz 900 and live rock went very well. I also dosed MB7 for a couple of months. I've always read the more bacteria strains the better. TBO I don't know how many different strains were actually introduced but I was happy with the results.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the display was 100% dry rock and bar bottom at start up. I added as much live rock to the sump as I could fit. I ended up pulling the live rock later to repurpose.

This is the earliest shot I can find.

The was the worst my ugly stage got. The green film type algae was only visible under whites.

And a recent shot.

 

[Fish Fan]

My experience with Fritz 900 and live rock went very well. I also dosed MB7 for a couple of months. I've always read the more bacteria strains the better. TBO I don't know how many different strains were actually introduced but I was happy with the results.
This is the earliest shot I can find.

The was the worst my ugly stage got. The green film type algae was only visible under whites.

And a recent shot.

^What this man says. Use as many sources of bacteria as is practical (so your Fritz and live rock combo is fine). Microbes will complete, but that's not a bad thing, it's a good thing :)

 

[Fish Fan]

So where I’m confused is should I be dosing ammonia to feed the Fritz or would I be okay adding a pair of clowns this weekend.

I would suggest you do not add fish at this time. Back in the day, a "fish-in" cycle was the norm, but it's now widely regarded as inhumane to the fish. Even hardy fish like Clowns that can survive will have gill damage, and may not live their best life.

Yes, need need a source of ammonia to "feed" your bacteria. I prefer to use bottled ammonium chloride for this, it's cleaner and more controllable, in my opinion. However, others choose to either "ghost feed" the tank, which means you simply feed fish food to the tank as if there were fish, but there are no fish yet. Or, some use "the shrimp method" where you take a piece of shrimp from your seafood market and toss it in the tank. In both cases, the fish food or piece of shrimp will start to decay, which releases ammonia for the bacteria to work on.

In my experience, the shrimp method can literally be stinky, and both the shrimp and ghost feeding is just harder to control. I'd suggest Dr. Tim's Ammonium Chloride:
https://www.chewy.com/dr-tims-aquat...MI7riT6brkiwMVmm0PAh3LhRZtEAQYASABEgKgUfD_BwE
You need reliable test kits, I'd suggest getting the Salifert brand ammonia and nitrate at this point:
https://www.chewy.com/salifert-aqua...MIyPfBlLvkiwMVcmBHAR33XStPEAQYASABEgK_hPD_BwE

Also while I’m in the cycle I should keep the lights off correct? I have had them off since I filled the tank, but I was thinking that the lights might help create diatoms and algae to help with the cycle.

Yes, for a dry rock and sand start, I'd keep your lights off through the cycle. Feel free to switch them on and enjoy your tank here and there, just don't leave them on all day while you're at work, for example.

Now with all that being said, I shouldn’t be doing any water changes until all test come back good correct?

Correct, don't do water changes during your cycle. At the end of the cycle, you can do a large water change to lower nitrates before adding livestock slowly.

Last couple times I have had saltwater tanks, I never took this approach. I added sand and some live rock and a few days later started adding fish. Never lost anything just battled the ugly stage

So, good news and bad news lol! In my humble non-expert opinion, the "best" way to beat back the uglies is indeed to use live rock. But for your current build, you can minimize (but likely never really escape) the "uglies". Wear it like a badge of honor, try to keep everything on the right track, and the uglies will work themselves out. Intervene only if it's at like plague proportions.

I hope this helps and best of luck!

 

[Poseidon03]

I would suggest you do not add fish at this time. Back in the day, a "fish-in" cycle was the norm, but it's now widely regarded as inhumane to the fish. Even hardy fish like Clowns that can survive will have gill damage, and may not live their best life.

Yes, need need a source of ammonia to "feed" your bacteria. I prefer to use bottled ammonium chloride for this, it's cleaner and more controllable, in my opinion. However, others choose to either "ghost feed" the tank, which means you simply feed fish food to the tank as if there were fish, but there are no fish yet. Or, some use "the shrimp method" where you take a piece of shrimp from your seafood market and toss it in the tank. In both cases, the fish food or piece of shrimp will start to decay, which releases ammonia for the bacteria to work on.

In my experience, the shrimp method can literally be stinky, and both the shrimp and ghost feeding is just harder to control. I'd suggest Dr. Tim's Ammonium Chloride:
https://www.chewy.com/dr-tims-aquat...MI7riT6brkiwMVmm0PAh3LhRZtEAQYASABEgKgUfD_BwE
You need reliable test kits, I'd suggest getting the Salifert brand ammonia and nitrate at this point:
https://www.chewy.com/salifert-aqua...MIyPfBlLvkiwMVcmBHAR33XStPEAQYASABEgK_hPD_BwE

Yes, for a dry rock and sand start, I'd keep your lights off through the cycle. Feel free to switch them on and enjoy your tank here and there, just don't leave them on all day while you're at work, for example.


Correct, don't do water changes during your cycle. At the end of the cycle, you can do a large water change to lower nitrates before adding livestock slowly.


So, good news and bad news lol! In my humble non-expert opinion, the "best" way to beat back the uglies is indeed to use live rock. But for your current build, you can minimize (but likely never really escape) the "uglies". Wear it like a badge of honor, try to keep everything on the right track, and the uglies will work themselves out. Intervene only if it's at like plague proportions.

I hope this helps and best of luck!

Won't delaying the lights just cause a delay in the uglies?

OP: why put the love rock into your sump rather than display? If it has coraline algae, you'd want that to spread. If it has any pests you're worried about, if it's in your sump, it will most likely spread to your display rock eventually.

My personal experience with this is to run the tank like you will when you have everything set up. Get your light intensity and strength dialed in and just keep an eye on your nutrient levels. The algae in the ugly stage will out compete the nitrifying bacteria in areas hit by light. What you want to do is control it until coraline can out compete that algae. You want to keep your nitrate and phosphate at a level to where it doesn't impede the Coraline and it limits the uglies (typically nitrates around 10 and phosphate under .1 from my experience). The only time I've seen uglies spread excessively is when Coraline growth slows. Not sure if this is correlation or causation.

Dry rock has been known to release or absorb nitrates and phosphates. I've seen mainly phosphates skyrocket when starting and I've seen where nitrates need to be constantly dosed. If this is due to the rocks doing it or microfauna, I'm not sure, but I definitely agree with some sort of reliable test kit.

I agree with the ammonia dosing to start. I don't remember the exact levels, but definitely keep it controlled and test regularly. An excessive amount will cause excessive nitrites or nitrates in the end and can actually delay your microbiome cycle. As explained before, you want to keep nitrates and phosphates detectable, but not excessive. Once you state seeing uglies and there's no detectable nitrite or ammonia, is recommend adding a small part of your cleanup crew to help manage it.

Others milage may vary as this is a hobby and there's a ton of different ways and experiences.

 

[Fish Fan]

Won't delaying the lights just cause a delay in the uglies?

Yes, though I still think you can at least minimize them by allowing time for other bacteria to populate on the rocks first. Certainly, everyone's milage will vary here.