Help an ICP newbie?

[exnisstech]

Greetings all, I'm totally ignorant when it comes to chemistry so I'm seeking assistance from you knowledgeable folks to help with my first ATI ICP test results. A little background on why I had the test done. I have 2 tanks, a reefer 170 aprox 35g total volume that I am switching over to SPS from mostly LPS. My second tank is a 180g about 220g total with sump. Tank inhabitants are bubble tip nems , some monti caps, softies, and a few LPS along with fish. Everything is the 180g looks perfectly fine. What caused concern was when I moved some LPS from the reefer into the 180g to make room for the new rock work and SPS frags. Whenever I move one of my nice large LPS pieces into the 180g they deflate and look terrible. I have left them in for 2 weeks to give them a chance to adjust even tho lighting is almost identical and flow similar. Since they look so bad after a while rather than watch them die I move them back into the reefer and within 24 hours they inflate and look great. That leads me to think there may be something different in the water chemistry. The same RO water is used and changes are performed from the same batches of fresh salt mix. This test is from the 180g where the LPS suffer when placed into it from the reefer. I am awaiting test results on the reefer 170 where the LPS thrive. I am posting screen shots of the results that show concerns as my lack of knowledge prevents me from knowing if they are anything to worry about. I am also posting results of my RO water test that appears to have some concerns. I won't bother posting the pages of the results that were normal unless requested. Thanks to you all here that are willing to take your time helping others.
Thanks Alk is a little low but normally runs 7.5ish testing with Hanna. It did test 6.8 from the same sample I sent in to ATI. I'm not sure why it was low unless it was the time of day I tested as it was 5 hours earlier than I normally test. It tested at 7.7 four days later at my normal testing time. I dose kalk with a dosing pump, nothing else is added.

180g test results

RO water results

 

[saltyfins]

Greetings all, I'm totally ignorant when it comes to chemistry so I'm seeking assistance from you knowledgeable folks to help with my first ATI ICP test results. A little background on why I had the test done. I have 2 tanks, a reefer 170 aprox 35g total volume that I am switching over to SPS from mostly LPS. My second tank is a 180g about 220g total with sump. Tank inhabitants are bubble tip nems , some monti caps, softies, and a few LPS along with fish. Everything is the 180g looks perfectly fine. What caused concern was when I moved some LPS from the reefer into the 180g to make room for the new rock work and SPS frags. Whenever I move one of my nice large LPS pieces into the 180g they deflate and look terrible. I have left them in for 2 weeks to give them a chance to adjust even tho lighting is almost identical and flow similar. Since they look so bad after a while rather than watch them die I move them back into the reefer and within 24 hours they inflate and look great. That leads me to think there may be something different in the water chemistry. The same RO water is used and changes are performed from the same batches of fresh salt mix. This test is from the 180g where the LPS suffer when placed into it from the reefer. I am awaiting test results on the reefer 170 where the LPS thrive. I am posting screen shots of the results that show concerns as my lack of knowledge prevents me from knowing if they are anything to worry about. I am also posting results of my RO water test that appears to have some concerns. I won't bother posting the pages of the results that were normal unless requested. Thanks to you all here that are willing to take your time helping others.
180g display results. Alk is a little low but test at 7.5 -8.0 when I test with hanna and I get similar results when compared to salifert. Maybe it changes over time during shipping etc?



RO water results

put it into english, that'll help you.

 

[exnisstech]

put it into english, that'll help you.

Ha ha I am ignorant I'll delete the screen shots and repost.

 

[saltyfins]

Ha ha I am ignorant I'll delete the screen shots and repost.

No worries, I've done that too lol

 

[Justdrew]

To me I would address the RO water problems. Possible metal contamination getting through or in your storage tank. Also significant Phosphate in your RO water..

 

[T-J]

As a Reef Moonshiner, I do these tests about every two months.
Your RODI water should be zeros across the board. You may want to change your filters if you're getting anything other than zero. Depending on your incoming water quality, you may need to add filters to your setup. I have HORRIBLE city water that starts with 500 TDS. I use a sediment, two carbon blocks, RO membrane and then DI resin, and I get 0 TDS and 0's on my ATI test.

You also have high phosphates and low nitrates. Another concern to me is the presence of copper.

 

[exnisstech]

As a Reef Moonshiner, I do these tests about every two months.
Your RODI water should be zeros across the board. You may want to change your filters if you're getting anything other than zero. Depending on your incoming water quality, you may need to add filters to your setup. I have HORRIBLE city water that starts with 500 TDS. I use a sediment, two carbon blocks, RO membrane and then DI resin, and I get 0 TDS and 0's on my ATI test.

You also have high phosphates and low nitrates. Another concern to me is the presence of copper.

To me I would address the RO water problems. Possible metal contamination getting through or in your storage tank. Also significant Phosphate in your RO water..

I found the RO interesting also. I run 1 sediment and one carbon with 2 membranes to boost output. TDS going into di is always mid 20 and runs through cation and anion then a final mixed bed and is always 0 coming out checked with 2 meters. Runs through all plastic RO tubing into a brute container. Filters and Membranes were replaced 3 months ago. So I'm not sure where the copper would come from. I do have copper plumbing but nothing but plastic after tapping to supply the RO system. This is going to be a challenge I'm afraid.

 

[exnisstech]

I just tested the RO water using a Hanna HR copper tester and it reads 0

 

[Reef Labs Inc]

Greetings all, I'm totally ignorant when it comes to chemistry so I'm seeking assistance from you knowledgeable folks to help with my first ATI ICP test results. A little background on why I had the test done. I have 2 tanks, a reefer 170 aprox 35g total volume that I am switching over to SPS from mostly LPS. My second tank is a 180g about 220g total with sump. Tank inhabitants are bubble tip nems , some monti caps, softies, and a few LPS along with fish. Everything is the 180g looks perfectly fine. What caused concern was when I moved some LPS from the reefer into the 180g to make room for the new rock work and SPS frags. Whenever I move one of my nice large LPS pieces into the 180g they deflate and look terrible. I have left them in for 2 weeks to give them a chance to adjust even tho lighting is almost identical and flow similar. Since they look so bad after a while rather than watch them die I move them back into the reefer and within 24 hours they inflate and look great. That leads me to think there may be something different in the water chemistry. The same RO water is used and changes are performed from the same batches of fresh salt mix. This test is from the 180g where the LPS suffer when placed into it from the reefer. I am awaiting test results on the reefer 170 where the LPS thrive. I am posting screen shots of the results that show concerns as my lack of knowledge prevents me from knowing if they are anything to worry about. I am also posting results of my RO water test that appears to have some concerns. I won't bother posting the pages of the results that were normal unless requested. Thanks to you all here that are willing to take your time helping others.
Thanks Alk is a little low but normally runs 7.5ish testing with Hanna. It did test 6.8 from the same sample I sent in to ATI. I'm not sure why it was low unless it was the time of day I tested as it was 5 hours earlier than I normally test. It tested at 7.7 four days later at my normal testing time. I dose kalk with a dosing pump, nothing else is added.

180g test results

RO water results

Several interesting things appear to be happening here. First and foremost, regarding the odd behavior of the relocated coral, it's going to be difficult to share an opinion about what is happening there without seeing the results for the other tank. Generally speaking though, I would start simple and check the foundation first. If there are differences in elemental composition, resolve those first, and see if that solves the problem. If not, then start looking for more difficult issues.

In addition to trace elements, what does the pH cycle (daily low and high value) look like for each of the two tanks?

Regarding your RO water results, and given what you wrote regarding your recent RO system maintenance, the results look potentially suspicious. I frequently see results in the lab from RO systems with old or damaged membranes or saturated DI resins. It's unusual to see all zeros and just a few elements passing through with readings that high. You might want to re-test your RO before spending a lot of time trying to chase down a problem that might not even be there.

It can be challenging to understand how best to utilize ICP testing as someone new to this type of analysis. There are differences, sometime significant, between ICP testing services, and there are nuances in making best use of the results. We have some useful information on our website that may be helpful to you.

 

[exnisstech]

Thank you. I have replaced the RO system already. It was a subpar system so due for replacement anyway. I will start testing PH in the am then again in the evening on both tanks. I have been testing PH sporadically. I'll more than likely return here for assistance one I receive the results from the second tank as there is definatly something strange going on. I had moved a large meat coral into the 180 gal (tank tested already) and it was shriveled with skeleton just beginning to show through. Yesterday I placed it back into the reefer 170 where it was and today it is already almost fully inflated again.

 

[exnisstech]

Ok the second test came back and now I'm doubting the validity, at least the RO analysis. the first sample I sent in I used a glass canning jar to scoop the water out of the brute container before adding it to the vial. The second sample I took the water strait out of the brute container. The second sample shows high silicone and the first sample showed none? The first sample shows high phosphorus and phosphate and the second sample shows none of either. The water came from the same batch of RO water from the same container so I don't understand the difference in the results.
The first RO water analysis




The second RO analysis




I'm going to repost the first tank results along with the second tank below to make them easier to compare. I'm still trying to find out why certain LPS wither in the 180 gallon and thrive in the reefer 170. I see some differences in Fluorine, iodine, lithium, silver, vanadium, zinc, and copper in the 180. Randy commented in another thread on the copper .
"The display copper is not high enough to cause apparent issues, IMO. It least in my tank 10 ppb did not appear to be an issue.
Randy Holmes-Farley"
I'm not really sure if any of the other elements matter as chemistry is far far from my forte.

The 180 gallon where LPS wither



The reefer 170 where the LPS thrive

 

[exnisstech]

This is just 2 of the coral I had to remove from the 180 after they deflated to the point skeleton was showing. The meat coral and trachophylia in the lower left. This is after being back in the reefer 170 for less than a week. 2 others that did not do well and had to be moved back were a fox coral and pectinia.