Help! Ich attack

[darrenbaker2016]

Hi

I recently had a Regal Tang that had ich, unfortunately I was too late to save it.

However, I had other fish in the tank which didn't show any sign of ich, a damsel and two clowns.

Over the past two days I have lost these fish and now I have no fish in the tank.

My question is I have a bubble tip anemone and a starfish in the tank along with a snails and hermit crabs.

Will ich effect any of these?

I understand that ich will die if it has nothing to attach to and the tank is left uninhabited for a couple of weeks.

If I leave the tank with the bta and the starfish crabs and snails will this be the case?

Any help gratefully received!

 

[jd371]

You could leave everything that's left in the tank, only fish need to be removed. You said that the other fish died 2 days after the Tang, if that's correct I'm thinking it might be velvet. Ich takes a while to kill fish, while velvet is a fast killer. It doesn't matter if it's either ich or velvet you'll have to leave the tank fallow for more than a couple of weeks, more like 76 days to be sure that ich has died off. I believe if it's velvet the tank doesn't need to be fallow as long, but why take the chance.

 

[jsker]

@melypr1985

 

[darrenbaker2016]

The tang died on Thursday, having had white spots on it previously which I thought was ich.

I then performed a 50% water change in aid to help on the Friday. Not sure if this made things worse. I realise this is quite a high amount of water to change.

I then however lost the Damselfish on the Saturday, which hadnt showed any signs of being ill. when I found it had been part eaten, i naturally assumed it was the boxer shrimp as ive seen him going for the fish before and believe these can kill fish. So naturally I took him back to the LFS.

However on Monday and tuesday morning I then lost both clowns one after the other, which again had shown no sign of being ill.

All levels seemed fine. There was a slight bit of ammonia present but no nitrites or nitrates.

All that is left in the tank now is the anemone, a starfish, crabs and snails.

If I leave the tank without any fish for the 76 days now will this ensure it will be free of disease when I finally do introduce more fish?

I presume I will need to preform a water change before then?

 

[melypr1985]

All you need to do at this point is leave the tank fallow (no fish) for 76 days. All inverts and corals can stay and wont be effected by ich.... This includes the starfish and nem. Make sure to QT future additions so you dont have to go fallow again, or lose more fish.

 

[melypr1985]

If I leave the tank without any fish for the 76 days now will this ensure it will be free of disease when I finally do introduce more fish?

I presume I will need to preform a water change before then?

Yes, this will make sure no parasites have survived in the end. You should treat your tank like you normally would during this time. Water change as you normally would and feed still as well. Just feed a little less than normal since there arn't any fish to eat it. The starfish and other crabs and whatnot will eat it when it hits the sand anyway.

 

[darrenbaker2016]

Just beginning to wonder if it was velvet as my other half is saying that the clowns in particular were sitting on the floor of the tank and we found the one clown buried under the filter housing, it had actually burrowed away at the substrate to get under there and the other we found buried under a rock. She also said they were going to right to the top of the tank as if they were gasping for air. Can this be treated in a similar way? I understand that velvet can actually harm invertebrates?

 

[melypr1985]

Just beginning to wonder if it was velvet as my other half is saying that the clowns in particular were sitting on the floor of the tank and we found the one clown buried under the filter housing, it had actually burrowed away at the substrate to get under there and the other we found buried under a rock. She also said they were going to right to the top of the tank as if they were gasping for air. Can this be treated in a similar way? I understand that velvet can actually harm invertebrates?

No, velvet can't harm inverts either. It's a fish parasite and can't live on inverts. It has a similar lifecycle to ich. The fallow period for it is 6 weeks- which should guarantee there is no more velvet in the system. The longer 76 days is for ich as it's life cycle can be much longer. I can't tell you if it was velvet or not without pictures and more info, but at this point I dont think it matters. Leaving the tank fallow for the full 76 days will make sure neither parasite is in the system when it's over and your ready to start getting new fish again.

 

[darrenbaker2016]

Yeah makes sense to leave it as long as possible. Just a ball ache having no fish and losing all of them and the hard work! What would cause velvet or ich?

 

[melypr1985]

What would cause velvet or ich?

They both have to be introduced to the system. Typically this is done by adding a fish (without QT) that is carrying one or the other. Most of the time these parasites will live in the gills where we can't see them. As part of their lifecycle they will drop off the host and create a cyst on a hard surface in the aquarium (shells, sand, rocks, skeletons of corals, heaters,ect). After several days (time depends on the strain and whether it's ich or velvet) the cyst breaks open with more parasites! They go off swimming to find a new fish host to eat and begin the cycle again. Neither just appear in a tank. However it can come into your tank in other ways. On a frag plug, or hard skeleton of a coral, or even in the water from the LFS or online retailer. I and many others choose to QT our corals and inverts for 76 days as well as our fish. A coral QT that remains without fish insures that anything that was attached to those inverts or corals dies from starvation before being introduced to the DT. Let's face it, it's a great excuse to start a small frag tank! lol

 

[darrenbaker2016]

OK thanks for your help

 

[Humblefish]

^^ Great advice above. In addition to going fallow for 76 days, I encourage you to begin reading about how to setup & utilize a QT: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/

QT'ing all future fish purchases will lessen the chance of this ever happening to you again.

 

[darrenbaker2016]

So I've come home tonight to find that the anemone has gone and all that remains is a little shrivelled up piece of it.

The only things left in the tank now are snails crabs and a starfish but I hate to think how much longer that will survive.

I'm beginning to wonder if it would be easier to start again? Not sure how I'd go about doing this?

I think I'd need to kill the live rock off but how? And how long does this take?

I'd probably chuck the substrate and get new to be on the safe side.

I presume I could put the starfish and cuc in a smaller tank for the time being with a heater and a small wavemaker to keep the water from settling. Would they be alright without a skimmer and filtration? Could I use the water from the tank?

Thanks for your help

 

[melypr1985]

I dont think you need to start over completely. The parasites arn't causing the issue with your nem. You can start over if you feel like that's best though. You can just take it all out and let it dry out completely.... maybe for a week in the sun. Then you need to clean it... some people use muriatic acid for this, some use bleach. I'm no expert in that area. We can tag the [HASHTAG]#reefsquad[/HASHTAG] for more detailed info in that area though.

 

[dbl]

I'm not saying starting over is necessary, but if you do end up going that route, here's what I would recommend.

Use muratic acid. The acid in my opinion is more thorough and faster than bleach or vinegar. Put the rock in a tub of water and acid mixture, and let the rocks soak for at least several hours. Take them out rinse really well and then let them sit out in the sun for a couple of days.

Caution on the acid...it's nasty stuff. Do your soak outside, not in the house, basement or garage - outside. Use gloves and eye protection.

Ditch your sand and start with new. You'll obviously need to cycle the tank as if it were a new set up, because that's what it will be.

Again, not saying it's necessary but that is the process I recommend if you do start over. Others' opinions may vary.

 

[4FordFamily]

All you need to do at this point is leave the tank fallow (no fish) for 76 days. All inverts and corals can stay and wont be effected by ich.... This includes the starfish and nem. Make sure to QT future additions so you dont have to go fallow again, or lose more fish.

This

 

[4FordFamily]

Ich or velvet definitely are not related to the anemone loss. Anemones can be touchy for the first month or two in the hobby, did I miss you saying how long the tank has been set up? That would have an impact for certain if it were new. What about nitrates, have you tested?

 

[Robink]

Since you have to wait anyway, you could set up a small quarantine tank and have it cycle so you could have some fish ready to introduce to your dt when the fallow period is over... Just a thought. Look up Humblefish's post on setting up a quarantine.
Another thought, if you had ammonia in your tank it may not have finished its initial cycle and maybe that's a contributing factor.