Help! Juvenile French Angel Disease

[Chris Palm]

Hey guys, pretty new here to reef2reef so this is my first post. I am not sure if I should post this in an existing thread or if it's okay if I just start a new one, but here it goes.

So I live on an island in the Caribbean and I sometimes collect some fish snorkeling off the coast/beach. About a month ago I collected a juvenile french angel, which I put in my QT. The first few days he was only eating nori but within a week he was eating flakes and he could actually sense when I entered the room and came directly to the top of he tank waiting for me to drop the flakes in. However, about 3-4 days ago I noticed a significant change in his behavior. He is just floating around at the top of the tank and he is not eating at all. Furthermore, I noticed a change in his color, and when I turned on the lights I saw he had white spots. I don't think it's ick as I have experience eith ick, saving some fish from it and als losing a few fish to it in the past. Honestly when I first saw him like this, I thought he was going to be dead within a few hours. But now, 3-4 days later I noticed that he is gaining some strength as he is not just floating around anymore. The bad news is that he is still not eating. I tried taking some pictures of it so you guys can help me diagnose the disease and perhaps still help me save it??

The pictures are not that great as I took them from the top of the water. I dont have any lights on my QT which makes it difficult to take pics from the front of the tank. Please let me know if you can help!

Thanks!

 

[melypr1985]

That could be velvet, but I would expect the fish to be dead by now if it was. Either way, ich or velvet, it's treated the same. With copper or cloroquine phosphate (still can't spell it lol)

The eyes look cloudy too. is that just the picture? Or do they appear cloudy to you as well?

 

[Humblefish]

Can you describe the white spots in as much detail as possible. How numerous, size, shape, how long they remained on the fish, etc.? It does sorta look like velvet to me too, but a nice closeup shot of the fish would be ideal.

 

[Chris Palm]

Alright! I'll put my lights on the tank tomorrow and try to get a better pic. My problem is, that on the island the lfs doesnt really specialize in saltwater so they dont have any medication available. Hyposalinity is my only option basically. Would that help?

 

[Humblefish]

Hyposalinity is my only option basically. Would that help?

Only with ich and capsalid monogeneans (family of flukes/parasitic flatworms). A FW dip will clear a fish's gills of some parasites/worms, but since it is not 100% effective all it does is buy you time until a proper treatment can be done.

 

[melypr1985]

Alright! I'll put my lights on the tank tomorrow and try to get a better pic. My problem is, that on the island the lfs doesnt really specialize in saltwater so they dont have any medication available. Hyposalinity is my only option basically. Would that help?

Not for velvet (if that's what this ends up being). Cloroquine phosphate might be available to you. It needs to be prescribed by a vet and filled at a pharmacy. You might be able to get that, it will work. Actually, humblefish has a new recipe for velvet that works really well. I'll link it here for you to read.

 

[melypr1985]

http://reef2reef.com/threads/defeating-marine-velvet-disease.217570/

This is the article on velvet by humble. Even if your angel ends up not having velvet, it's good info to have.

 

[Humblefish]

Chloroquine phosphate would be a godsend to you if you can get it: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

That would afford you an all-in-one medication to use on fish with external parasites: ich, velvet, brook & uronema. The only things that would really be missing from your fish medicine cabinet then would be praziquantel (dewormer) and a good antibiotic like kanamycin.

I envy you BTW, being able to collect your own fish. I used to have a "Florida tank" with specimens I collected, but I never caught a French angelfish.

 

[Chris Palm]

Thanks for the advice guys! It's pretty nice indeed to catch your own fish and their survival rate is also much higher than the ones I buy at the lfs. Plus you get to catch specimens that are not standard in the trade.

I tried taking a better picture with lights but I had no luck. He just stays in hiding. I also have a wrasse in there and it seems to be doing great. That kinda rules out marine velvet right?

 

[Humblefish]

He'd probably be dead by now if this was velvet. In the second pic you just posted, the fish appears to have white patches (larger than ich would be) on his body. Is this a correct observation?

 

[kandymann]

The Tank Transfer Method works great if it's ich.

Just my $0.02

 

[Chris Palm]

Yes it seems they are larger than ick. I have (had) a few tangs and I've seen a lot of fish get ick, but this seems different. I am trying hyposalinity now as I cannot find any medication. @Humblefish, where do you get chloraquin phosphate in the states? At the lfs? My friend is currently in the states and might be able to bring some back for me on Wednesday. On another note, check out some pictures of "Caribbean Tank"

 

[Humblefish]

@Chris Palm The only way to obtain reliable CP is from a pharmacy, which you or your friend would need a prescription to get. Some vets will write a Rx for it or it helps to have a doctor friend. Do be sure your friend has a prescription in hand before he boards an airplane with CP, as it is an FDA controlled substance.

Some online sources sell CP (ex. ebay) but it is hard to ascertain the purity. A lot of it is sourced from China where QC standards are highly dubious.

Nice Sergeant Major! I brought a bunch of those back from Florida one time for a predator tank I had. They are the most aggressive, brutal damsels I've ever seen.

 

[4FordFamily]

Thanks for the advice guys! It's pretty nice indeed to catch your own fish and their survival rate is also much higher than the ones I buy at the lfs. Plus you get to catch specimens that are not standard in the trade.

I tried taking a better picture with lights but I had no luck. He just stays in hiding. I also have a wrasse in there and it seems to be doing great. That kinda rules out marine velvet right?

My angel tank had velvet a few months ago over a 2 month span and I had no idea. Showed no typical and obvious symptoms I thought it was a million other things - turned out to be velvet. None of my wrasses showed any symptoms. I had a lime green, melanarus, red coris and banana wrasses in there. IME they're pretty hardy and for some reason seem much less affected by parasites even velvet.

 

[Chris Palm]

@Humblefish Haha ok so the CP from the states is near impossible. I'll try to get it here, I might have a few friends who can help me. They're probably going to find it very strange haha. Thanks on the sergeant major, they're really abundant here. I have had mine since they were literally babies and maybe for that reason they were not that aggressive. Really hardy fish though, that guy survived like 2 or 3 tank crashes (I was a little too ambitious with anemones).

these Damsels on the other hand were quite aggressive. They would destroy any fish they do not seem to like. Pigmeys and clowns were okay for them.

@3FordFamily thanks for your input. I guess the wrasse being okay does not rule out velvet. But how did your angels do?

 

[4FordFamily]

@Humblefish Haha ok so the CP from the states is near impossible. I'll try to get it here, I might have a few friends who can help me. They're probably going to find it very strange haha. Thanks on the sergeant major, they're really abundant here. I have had mine since they were literally babies and maybe for that reason they were not that aggressive. Really hardy fish though, that guy survived like 2 or 3 tank crashes (I was a little too ambitious with anemones).

these Damsels on the other hand were quite aggressive. They would destroy any fish they do not seem to like. Pigmeys and clowns were okay for them.

@3FordFamily thanks for your input. I guess the wrasse being okay does not rule out velvet. But how did your angels do?

I lost most angels in no longer than a week. One made it a month actually... It was horrible on them.

 

[Humblefish]

@Chris Palm Any cases of malaria where you are at? That is the primary use of Chloroquine, so you could say you needed some for preventative purposes.

 

[Chris Palm]

Hahahha (un)fortunately not.....depends on how you look at it haha.

 

[Chris Palm]

A bit off topic, but would you guys know what type of clownfish this is? The guy at the lfs sold it as a fancy white clownfish? I couldnt find it anywhere online.

 

[Humblefish]

Snowflake Ocellaris, perhaps?