Help Me Analyze My ICP Results!

[george9]

Hi everyone,
I recently got the results back from my ICP test and would appreciate a few sets of eyes to look over them. Nothing glaring shoots out at me, but here’s what I noticed and my thoughts on it, and Im curious to hear what others with more experience think.

1. salinity is LOW…how can this be??
I use two refractometers calibrated to what I thought was a 35ppt solution. I recalibrated to RODI just to see if I can replicate the lower salinity measured and my tank is still hitting 1.025

So, I took a trip to a LFS and they measured my salinity at 29-30ppt with an ice box handheld probe which is in line with the ATI ICP. I THEN went to a second store who measured the salinity with a Hanna checker and he measured it at 1.025 like my refractometers. He then showed me all of his display tanks are reading 1.026 with the Hanna checker to show that it should be working properly and my salinity probably isn’t as low as the ICP says. My corals look great and I would think they should be sulking pretty hard if my salinity was that far off.

I bought a Hanna checker myself to verify and will see later today what it says. I don’t plan on making any harsh changes because my corals look great and just can’t believe my salinity could be so low.

2. lithium is super high
I dose magnesium Tech M to keep my mag levels up lately since they have been depleting quicker as coralline grows in my tank. I read on other forums that this product can skyrocket lithium. Is this harmful at high levels? Regardless, I will find a new product to supplement magnesium because I am not comfortable with lithium getting higher and higher as I dose more mag.

3. My hanna checker read .08 po4 at the same time I took the sample water. This test yielded .04 PPM - nearly 100% off? Could some po4 been used by bacteria in the 10 days the samples were in the mail?

4. I am lacking in many trace elements. I use regular IO salt so this is expected but are there any elements i am lacking that anyone thinks would be an issue? Maybe iodine could be a bit higher for my zoas. I dose all for reef which is good for keeping most of the main elements in line although magnesium has been depleted quicker than usual lately which I’ve attributed to coraline growth.

Thanks in advance!!

I attached pics but here is the link as well:

Auswertungsergebnis

ATI Aquaristik - Lab

lab.atiaquaristik.com

 

[taricha]

2. lithium is super high
I dose magnesium Tech M to keep my mag levels up

That is unusually high for Li.

I will find a new product to supplement magnesium because I am not comfortable with lithium getting higher and higher as I dose more mag.

Why do you connect the Li to the Mg supplement? Is that the only possible source?

3. My hanna checker read .08 po4 at the same time I took the sample water. This test yielded .04 PPM - nearly 100% off?

sure it's 100% but also it may be well within combined uncertainties between hanna and ICP....

Could some po4 been used by bacteria in the 10 days the samples were in the mail?

Yep also possible. @Rick Mathew found consistent PO4 loss during storage due to biological processes. Some people's water is more active than others during storage.

 

[george9]

That is unusually high for Li.


Why do you connect the Li to the Mg supplement? Is that the only possible source?




sure it's 100% but also it may be well within combined uncertainties between hanna and ICP....

Yep also possible. @Rick Mathew found consistent PO4 loss during storage due to biological processes. Some people's water is more active than others during storage.

After some searching around forums I largely found most to say lithium isn’t much of a concern in sw aquariums but that didn’t answer my question as to why mine is so insanely high. It has to be something I am dosing.

I only dose:
1. All For Reef ( just about 1 mL daily right now)
2. neophos occasionally as needed
3. neonitro occasionally as needed
4. Kent magnesium Tech M as needed
4. Red sea AB+ daily
5. Occasional aminos at very low doses

no trace elements are added by me or anything that would add so much lithium that I can think of.
What I had added in large quantities recently is the Magnesium tech M as my mag was running around 1200. I added probably near 150ml total over a few days to bump up my mag between 1300-1350. This ICP test was then sampled about a week after I bumped the mag up. I saw in a couple of these forums people mentioned magnesium additives being a culprit for lithium but without explanation…

It seems to be the easiest culprit to pinpoint at this point but I really don’t know for sure.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/source-of-high-lithium.771452/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/detox-to-remove-elevated-lithium-levels.225766/


Im not sure if elevated lithium is a concern but I am going to switch mag brands and see what happens over a couple months

 

[bushdoc]

After some searching around forums I largely found most to say lithium isn’t much of a concern in sw aquariums but that didn’t answer my question as to why mine is so insanely high. It has to be something I am dosing.

I only dose:
1. All For Reef ( just about 1 mL daily right now)
2. neophos occasionally as needed
3. neonitro occasionally as needed
4. Kent magnesium Tech M as needed
4. Red sea AB+ daily
5. Occasional aminos at very low doses

no trace elements are added by me or anything that would add so much lithium that I can think of.
What I had added in large quantities recently is the Magnesium tech M as my mag was running around 1200. I added probably near 150ml total over a few days to bump up my mag between 1300-1350. This ICP test was then sampled about a week after I bumped the mag up. I saw in a couple of these forums people mentioned magnesium additives being a culprit for lithium but without explanation…

It seems to be the easiest culprit to pinpoint at this point but I really don’t know for sure.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/source-of-high-lithium.771452/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/detox-to-remove-elevated-lithium-levels.225766/


Im not sure if elevated lithium is a concern but I am going to switch mag brands and see what happens over a couple months

"Dangerously" is your word, right? I don't believe lithium is "dangerously" high. It is pretty nontoxic, both in your reef and to most organisms.

Elevated lithium is present in many if not most salt mixes made in the USA. I would not be concerned with it.

Above is a quote from top link you supplied.
Perhaps salt you are using can be an answer to high Lithium? Or somebody accidentally dropped lithium battery to your tank

 

[george9]

Above is a quote from top link you supplied.
Perhaps salt you are using can be an answer to high Lithium? Or somebody accidentally dropped lithium battery to your tank

lol I hope no one dropped a battery in the tank I didn’t at least!

I think salt is possible but I would think a salt mix shouldn’t mix up with lithium values of >1500. Maybe like 300-500 (which is already elevated) but with a value like I have pushing 2000 mg/l, it had to be added by something I was dosing I am thinking.
Admittedly I have no clue how much lithium regular IO has. If it was purely salt, my IO batches would have to regularly mix up to 1700 mg/l of Li during my bi-weekly 5g water changes which I don’t see as plausible personally since it’s an astronomically high concentration. Does anyone know how much Li Instant Ocean should contain?

As long as it isn’t harmful I won’t worry too much about it and hopefully it comes down with water changes.

 

[george9]

Just found this BRS ICP test on regular IO from the top of the bucket and its Li reading is 300 mg/l.

Still convinced my astronomical result from Kent Tech M. The magnesium salt in it must be high in lithium?

https://brsimages.cdn.bulkreefsupply.com/brsVideoContent/8-30-19-salt-mix-stratification-test-brstv-investigates/Instant+Ocean+Purple+Top.pdf

 

[george9]

In terms of the salinity debacle, I reached out to ATI just to verify how they measure salinity and they replied after re-testing my sample and even sent a pic. If you need another reason why ATI is the best, here’s you go!

Using my new Hanna on my tank, it matched the ATI ICP exactly so I think I have enough evidence to come to the conclusion that my calibration fluid for my refractometers was garbage. I think this is more likely than 2 different refractometers having some sort of manufacturing defect. Glad I decided to do an ICP or I wouldn’t have caught this until salinity was even lower!

I have since brought my tank up from 31.2 to 32.5 over the last couple of days and will continue very slowly raising to 35ppt. On the fence still if I want to calibrate my refractometers to my Hanna or just make my own calibration fluid soon.

The low salinity also corroborates the low magnesium I’ve noticed. I suspect raising the salinity will bump my mag up a good bit.

 

[rtparty]

Few things...I wouldn't trust the lithium reading until you send 2-3 tests and see it that high consistently.

The phosphate is totally within margin of error. The Hanna has a +-.03 plus like 5% or something odd. .08 and .04 aren't different enough to worry about.

What salt are you using?

 

[george9]

Few things...I wouldn't trust the lithium reading until you send 2-3 tests and see it that high consistently.

The phosphate is totally within margin of error. The Hanna has a +-.03 plus like 5% or something odd. .08 and .04 aren't different enough to worry about.

What salt are you using?

I plan on doing nothing drastic for the lithium and will probably do another ICP in a couple months to compare.

Im using boring old regular Instant Ocean.

I regret this choice now but that’s what I decided on using when I started the tank a year ago and am too scared to switch. it mixes up to the alkalinity I like (or just above) but it is lacking a lot of trace elements and I typically have to bump the mg and ca up in my water change water.

 

[rtparty]

I plan on doing nothing drastic for the lithium and will probably do another ICP in a couple months to compare.

Im using boring old regular Instant Ocean.

I regret this choice now but that’s what I decided on using when I started the tank a year ago and am too scared to switch. it mixes up to the alkalinity I like (or just above) but it is lacking a lot of trace elements and I typically have to bump the mg and ca up in my water change water.

Swtiching isn't scary or difficult. IO Purple should mix around 10dkh. No other salts really mix around there IME. I don't see any benefit to 10dkh personally but IO has been used for decades with success.

Try weighing your salt next time. IO Purple is 801 grams per 5 gallons of water. That should get you super close to 35PPT. Then check your refractometer. I stopped trusting calibration fluids years ago.

My bucket of IO Purple ICP tested at 338 for lithium. It is one of the highest out there that I tested. IO Reef Crystals also tested high. Very likely it is coming from their raw sodium chloride or raw magnesium additive.

You can find my results here:

The Ultimate Salt Test

I wanted to get this thread up and going before the holidays soak up all my time. I did a live YouTube with Deven from ReefDudes going over things but it is about 1.5 hours long. I will write up a more detailed explanation here in this first post soon. I am a hobbyist first and foremost. I have...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[george9]

Swtiching isn't scary or difficult. IO Purple should mix around 10dkh. No other salts really mix around there IME. I don't see any benefit to 10dkh personally but IO has been used for decades with success.

Try weighing your salt next time. IO Purple is 801 grams per 5 gallons of water. That should get you super close to 35PPT. Then check your refractometer. I stopped trusting calibration fluids years ago.

My bucket of IO Purple ICP tested at 338 for lithium. It is one of the highest out there that I tested. IO Reef Crystals also tested high. Very likely it is coming from their raw sodium chloride or raw magnesium additive.

You can find my results here:

The Ultimate Salt Test

I wanted to get this thread up and going before the holidays soak up all my time. I did a live YouTube with Deven from ReefDudes going over things but it is about 1.5 hours long. I will write up a more detailed explanation here in this first post soon. I am a hobbyist first and foremost. I have...

www.reef2reef.com

Thank you and awesome work with the salt tests!!!! That data will be invaluable to many for years to come I imagine. 10dkh is a bit high for me as well. I admittedly didn’t pick a salt based on preferred dkh and parameters before starting, but as I learned more I started kicking myself. I like my alk to be between 8.6-9.0 and have had no issues with my small water changes throwing alk off significantly. I’d actually prefer the kh of my salt mix to be just slightly higher than my preference so I at least know I am not decimating my alk by doing a water change. Once I run out of IO (I have 1 more 50g bag) I will look into switching to another salt that mixes a bit lower kh.

I am not sure if I am missing any key trace elements by using IO, though. I could bump iodine up a bit but not sure how important any of the others are.

In terms of lithium, If im using IO that mixes at 338 mg/l of Li, the my tank should run somewhere around there, right? Even though that value is still elevated, I’d much prefer it over the 1700 mg/l I have lol. That’s why I am thinking it has to be something other than my salt that I am adding to send it skyrocketing beyond baseline salt levels.

I plan on testing the refractometers by adding 10.0125 grams of IO to exactly 1 cup since I don’t have a way to precisely measure gallons. I believe this is the same as adding 801g to 5 gallons.

 

[george9]

Updating this in case someone down the road is dealing with high Li.

I just got back another ICP test (the most recent since my initial post on this thread) and my Li values have plummeted since I switched Mg brands in December. This nearly confirms that my high Li was indeed from the Kent Magnesium Tech M as suspected. I have been supplementing my IO WC water with Fritz Magnesium instead to raise to 1350-1400 and have no Li issues now. I am at 398 ppm right now which is in line with where IO mixes naturally.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for the update!