Help with algae control (dinos?)

eschaton

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Hello all,

A little over a month ago, my live rock order from Tampa Bay Saltwater came in. The rock was fantastic, and for the most part remains fantastic. However, I've been having increasing algae issues I don't quite know how to handle.

The first week or so, the rock was doing fine. There was no sign of a cycle (zero ammonia spike) and the tank was algae free. About a week later, after I introduced some livestock from Indo-Pacific Sea farms (and put macros into the sump) I began to have some algae issues. Initially this was of course diatoms, although this shifted pretty quickly to green hair algae.

Managing the green hair algae was difficult, but I slowly managed to win the battle. I purchased online more CUC snails and the like from reefcleaners and algae barn, and even found a captive-bred yellow tang which has done a good job. In addition, I used a toothbrush on the rocks, and scraped the back wall (which had a quite furry carpet of hair algae in the center by the overflow). There are a few small tufts of GHA left on one rock - and ironically enough on some of the brown macros - but that battle has been won.

The problem is, after mostly defeating the GHA, dinos appear to be taking over the tank. There's stringy brown goop on everything. Not just the rocks, walls, and sand bed, but even on the xenia and urchin spines. It doesn't appear to be bad enough yet to actually have killed anything, but it's unsightly as hell.


Current FTS:

npGbh6aaxrXeMl2VInm6ux4eI_LGb_oce24fHAFwT5AMAkU49NW2OP6ZTMTB7Veyq0yB-EGCY8HppnIdji7mGoh6FPgUTwp3qnDFmHLu2VTiK5DNsjq3UoF14DbG-gVCu7H2lxF9wLl36oKr-c642Vyl_jFds2LrE8ttUAQsp7TK1sfz2M3r6rUMqnbafADYb7le_0OjW23VbMHuFadP7laJ79Q8IWJifZaNdLW5rkze8abg8NhAE1ODcx-7_h84SwITb61Ql9UNNAOQJ3XOGFhoLbRgwTRxtaKQ9bm7OAwSeirrISaGd7yoAT4LqPhamO_vpCWxZq7hsd0LlM9TpdEtS6VjG7zMEyT0lu48H8ooIFDOiGlXZVq3bdTsacsl2VJsQkE7_DaNPjoKVU_x6sH8Y13HkaWyaKfZa_NZG41K-Ks_47hBZruacj-zIJGo6_AFVBNYdASF8C1vjcMbWmRN5AuVHkL80h4bczt3uTDFuSyAY0tn2UW6F-jFY0rwIC8zAF4wSvyBcLiOqrN0JRLfLNzpC6SbAI8pWWULSugXjVfR0th7dHfEuWwYuRcXMehdsd3HRE_RizRWb9opdNIV3nOuRwQVeKC-uh4nVZLU_0nxN9ffVL78kGrVdi0gJbR07Fjgf_osB4qjSIZvAd1Y1mF6Df8MM8s77nfyVqE4L87g1Zd1tsC8Fmo6GQ=w1666-h937-no


With the exception of the two orchid pseudochromis in the shot, and a small number of hardy corals, everything I've added has been for nutrient control. In terms of fish, I added the aforementioned yellow tang, a court jester goby, and just recently an eyespot blenny. I've added a red tuxedo urchin and many different kinds of algae-eating snails as well, albeit not in incredibly high densities as of yet.

I have been feeding, but not incredibly aggressively. I dose phyto just about every day for the filter feeders. For some reason my pseudochromis don't eat refrigerated arctipods, but they do like the bloodworms for my freshwater tanks, so I feed them that. Every other day I feed a rock flower anemone a frozen cube of mysis, and the rest get the leftovers. Possibly I should be feeding more, because I've heard dinos do worse in high nutrient tanks.

I have a fuge with chaeto, along with some other macros (ulva, red gracilaria). It doesn't appear to be working that well at nutrient export to be honest - I've even found some hair algae in it. Maybe it's because I am running it on 24-hour lights rather than reverse cycling from my display tank?

I am using RO/DI water with 0 TDS. I have to admit I have not been checking water parameters much as of yet, because I have yet to introduce any stony corals and the tank seemed cycled. I was using an ammonia alert tab to check for ammonia spikes during the cyles, and when I went break out the master kit this week to do testing, I realized the instructions were entirely missing. My freshwater kit shows about 5 PPM nitrates and a PH of about 8.3. I have new electronic tests coming in the mail from BRS to check my phosphate levels to see if that's an issue.

Some more shots:

LmYvJW3SZ07XNfK3ntB0cC4JRqwiCOt5FDpAAzls_4XuHAnE-6BJkebCib-Y6Hjfx4VfkgA-tnzmMcQIxjYBkRPdsyQjbOPcfJNy494LJZU3wZlLjCxSMpM2AkA4ANXWrcD6xfMCfzhPdkHcMQ3Ok5pYshSMvakDl2Pxrdc3n4ZwuFyk1nvPWJ9whWmqZ9rIPrOeG8ZJNUmTWt8DbxSLaTHg1UrBtdEiXKRg5ZUh72w0AQfKnBLNy0UxwzEFlQ0rwcLt-zopnlA2CvSaOKqTEKCpdHkIssMSucfu5wFsCkFpz_R-KWbuMdxoInGBUwRXNbsZ3yJM8aoNjtVxW-ikK7ZgI3yTZrzS0DMaQh-ptNm3gZRTjAl8Qp1H0b_9sqbnOKGPwaPi-4Ai0IBuSHIhT9CLLYuYKLqqszhI0UO9Chkz515kLQhgHIakMHZ20MxWFoe7atD4FBAEvtUUwjoklIEZG1os9VD-Vw0FpFz8baYTvXWFqYd_6C3wzpSSUAz5H1vGajm7ixeaxSAp9251-XZ6JZexb4P9ucUyEtWdN8a_DLWITosffZ9ShZiBMLAh0zV_UGvqUBCIML-0LU10qcPjMMqI4KuqlBQ4bDCS38y-Ry1ydb-SvLe53iGp5c0hQmllGdtqWytv8z_vJ_hJ4fR0YGTNz91wDXrrCbAjhCcrI8IxhmS4HDheuYcCFw=w528-h937-no


Snot and bubbles all over the macros...

x10-lKXCGsPr-r48UnR010KbA7BvNvr_LvsbCSyBNZ51dymeJdolEOizAV9Tih1vylqHz-TA2mE0vOFXunmzhjh8fjjGNVsdKEDX8Ggipu2gCCJR7TGdeZxwGcJBC1PqqdOSQHn4M1a3Yyc8QGEbIDEQNacOuoXp8deNKKnbX6fi7N9hfE21O6ThWbat_4CUzAA9bwddI3_o6gcf_SyoxJ9i1ueDafn6frNg93DjIPn_GBbWWjgPAnAfQ0Ms4PcWGApByvG97ISjD1txLkFDI2QElJc0tmCum9n5Fu87svocIZi8hG9fUrW3ifxjtM19kI7FtNGWbDN9cKjI0S-YydiCAnzTFo8Wi5EkW6mtr2RekCxd-sjGPMg0pJ5xBB8TpFLVdqHwo2GxN51C0rhiNp9bd2rkbGjIRn9RV6bb66jKfnC9lvDy_PYsJAG91TZhiJ0_3c9xy3XRzRNn5tjgvE1piPkW5fs2LLS2kp_N6gULuFy7N29kROjBVlr3qxP0Py40mzx6B4NbF9cbIM1KDexEiTlpAkF_1dh8SFTHQugpz5RAuFQ6iRExNa0DgFxn_WCVMO7fRU3JudAWSTTERvir2tMJVA3NaguEfeUADVMLiNpMbC_R7JZmCWn-EgDcD_a_zipHWnhpn_hi3ZZ_CgC-PfpGF8rciP7FLZZE3arORSGp_QuitUSLc2iKXg=w1666-h937-no


As I said, even the urchins are getting gunk on them. This guy was a hitchhiker, not purchased.

Any ideas?
 
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eschaton

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I've gotten no replies. I've tried to read the multiple, hundred-pages long dino threads, but coming up with a consensus is difficult I have decided for the time being to try and feed my tank more. In addition I'll try and be less aggressive when it comes to nutrient control, turning off my skimmer entirely. I actually wasn't running it until the GHA outbreak started, and I wonder if in retrospect that was what caused the dinos to be able to gain a foothold in the system.
 
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eschaton

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So. after doing the following (after a 24 lights out)

1. Turning off my skimmer.
2. Turning down the tank temperature by around four degrees.
3. Feeding more heavily than I have been doing.

Things surprisingly already look...better. There are still strings of dinos on the sand, rocks, etc. But they're already smaller, and notably don't have bubbles any longer.

Fingers crossed.
 

JonoB

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I feel you on the "reading multiple, hundred page long Dino thread". It's a bit overwhelming. I, unfortunately, don't have much hope to offer, as I believe am starting the same battle. I had GHA, started somewhat getting under control, then boom....what appears to be Dinos. I'd be curious to see what your phosphate readings are. I know both my nitrate and phosphate are at 0, I'm feeding more heavily to raise them and also have neonitro for the nitrate. I ran into this same issue before I moved, and I'm wondering if I need to up my stocking list for my tank so I have more fish. I would think more fish = more nitrates and phosphates through feeding, but maybe I'm wrong or that's a dumb way to go about it.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack your thread, but just let you know you aren't in it alone! I started a blackout yesterday and am working to get my levels up...hoping to go to the store tomorrow to pick up some more emeralds to help with the GHA because that's still a problem, too.
 
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eschaton

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Out of curiosity, Why did you lower your tank temp?

I had read that certain kinds of dino do better in warmer tanks. I had my tank set on the warm side (83) so I figured kicking the temp down a bit wouldn't hurt.

I also turned down my VorTech a bit, because I've also heard that high flow seems to help dinos.
 

Ajayabb

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Looks like Dino’s. Avoid water changes. Get your Nitrates and Phosphates up and if you have a microscope to ID all the better. I’m battling Dino’s right now too. I added a UV sterilizer to the DT and did a 5 day blackout. I am dosing H2O2 1 cc per Gallon and adding Silica along with Nitrates and phosphates to geat my nutrients up I’m trying to foster algae/diatom growth to out compete the dinos
 
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eschaton

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Looks like Dino’s. Avoid water changes. Get your Nitrates and Phosphates up and if you have a microscope to ID all the better. I’m battling Dino’s right now too. I added a UV sterilizer to the DT and did a 5 day blackout. I am dosing H2O2 1 cc per Gallon and adding Silica along with Nitrates and phosphates to geat my nutrients up I’m trying to foster algae/diatom growth to out compete the dinos

It remains to be seen, but I'm thinking that stopping the skimmer may have been the best thing for me. I've long been a skimmer skeptic given they are known to "polish out" bacteria and a lot of food sources that tank fauna rely upon. But I got a "free" skimmer included with my system, and decided to start running it a few weeks back when GHA became a problem. Soon after, dinos. Now I turned off the skimmer and the dinos are already looking a bit less bubbly.

This makes logical sense, because turning off the skimmer does three things which could hurt dinos:

1. It stops removing competing organisms like bacteria from the water column (dinos can avoid being skimmed because they form snot chains).

2. It means nutrients stay dissolved in the water, which helps fauna which need higher nutrients than dinos compete.

3. It lowers the oxygenation level of the tank a bit - and dinos are thought to thrive in high oxygen turbulent water, so again, a good thing.
 

Ajayabb

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Hopefully that works. Nothing has been discouraging for me as much as Dinoflagellates because they are so stubborn and just wreak havoc to the DT
 

waleedreef

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Dino X with 40 days treatment. after it's gone use NOPOX to lower/control N and P. together with refugium will be great couple.

good luck
 

Mikedawg

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I've tried all the "standard" approaches and finally Dr. Tim's formula for dinos utilizing Refresh and Wasteaway got my ovata under control and my tank has been clear for several months. As you know, dinos are present in most bodies of water and never really go away. Best strategy IMHO is to increase biodiversity, etc. And outcompete them. Good luck, it's a long term process to knock them down.
 
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eschaton

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As of this morning once again while the strings were still evident there were no bubbles forming and the dino strands didn't seem as "snotty" as a few days ago. More importantly my leather began extending its polyps for the first time in days and my xenia began to pulse again. In both cases there's still a tiny bit of dino on them, but apparently it's lessened enough they're starting to act normally.

Best strategy IMHO is to increase biodiversity, etc. And outcompete them. Good luck, it's a long term process to knock them down.

I have TBS live rock, not dead rock, so I'm thinking the "recovery" should be comparably quick, because there should still be a ton of biodiversity on the rocks.
 

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