Help with Alkalinity

  • Thread starter Thread starter BillB83
  • Start date Start date
  • Tagged users Tagged users None

BillB83

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 4, 2023
Messages
296
Reaction score
111
Location
USA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hello,

Roughly 6 months ago i upgraded my system to a 135 gallon tank. Mixed reef and I am having difficulty with the tank consuming alot of alkalinity.

I am using red sea blue mixing to 1.025

Using hanna checkers I just tested and my numbers are as follows:
Calcium 430
Alk 7.5
Mag 1360
phos 0.04
nit 4ppm

I run the tank at 77 degrees

I use a hydros system with a minnow and im dosing 20ml of alk daily from 10pm to 10am when the lights are out. My Ph is sitting around 7.7 at night and 7.9 during the day.

For a system that's only 6 or so months old is this common for it to only suck up alk and nothing else ? Any suggestions would be helpful in trying to increase my alk and PH. The tank is in the basement so ideally i would like to get a co2 scrubber here soon but from the looks of it i would need a new skimmer like the regal octo to make it recycle all the air as the skimmer i have has holes in the top of it.
 

I'd stick with equal parts dosing. At 20 mL, you are only adding about 0.3 dKH of alk, and the corresponding calcium decline would be only about 2 ppm per day, which would take a long time to see properly. Adding it all along will just keep the calcium from slowly drifting down, and will also help maintain other ions in balance. :)
 
excuse my ignorance to this i am fairly new to dosing in general but what youre saying is to also dose the calcium side of things even tho the calcium isnt low ? so 20ml of each? Do you think i should up the amount of what im dosing to raise the alk or just let it sit where it is and dose both parts 20ml ?


Another question is when dosing calcium should i dose on a separate schedule than the alk ? or dose them at the same time ?


Thanks
Bill
 
excuse my ignorance to this i am fairly new to dosing in general but what youre saying is to also dose the calcium side of things even tho the calcium isnt low ? so 20ml of each? Do you think i should up the amount of what im dosing to raise the alk or just let it sit where it is and dose both parts 20ml ?


Another question is when dosing calcium should i dose on a separate schedule than the alk ? or dose them at the same time ?


Thanks
Bill

That is correct. Dose both parts equally based on the alkalinity needs. Calcium will follow along just fine. That's the benefit of a two part system like ESV.

Calcium can be dosed any time, but not right on top of the alk dose. As soon as the alk dose mixes in or moves out of a sump (if you have one), you are good to go for the calcium.
 
That is correct. Dose both parts equally based on the alkalinity needs. Calcium will follow along just fine. That's the benefit of a two part system like ESV.

Calcium can be dosed any time, but not right on top of the alk dose. As soon as the alk dose mixes in or moves out of a sump (if you have one), you are good to go for the calcium.
Yeah i have a sump i just wanna make sure i program is correctly with my minnow. I can just dose the calcium 30min after the alk so every 30 min for 12 hours it will dose alk then cal then alk and so on
 
Yeah i have a sump i just wanna make sure i program is correctly with my minnow. I can just dose the calcium 30min after the alk so every 30 min for 12 hours it will dose alk then cal then alk and so on

Sounds good.

Happy reefing. :)
 
I guess my question still is should i be trying to raise my alk to a higher number ? my salt mixes at like 8.5 or should i be dosing more to maintain and keep it up ?

I recommend 7-11 dKH, and there are pros and cons across that range, but there's no perfect level and 7 dKH is fine. All of those levels are above natural levels in the ocean. Soem hard corals may grow their skeletons faster at higher alk (and pH). But soem folks think colors may be better at lower alk. Everyone has theor own happy place.

Here's a section from one of my articles:

Alkalinity

Like calcium, many corals also use "alkalinity" to form their skeletons, which are composed primarily of calcium carbonate. It is generally believed that corals take up bicarbonate, convert it into carbonate, and then use that carbonate to form calcium carbonate skeletons. That conversion process is shown as:

HCO3- → CO3-- + H+

Bicarbonate → Carbonate + proton (which is released from the coral)

To ensure that corals have an adequate supply of bicarbonate for calcification, aquarists could just measure bicarbonate directly. Designing a test kit for bicarbonate, however, is somewhat more complicated than for alkalinity. Consequently, the use of alkalinity as a surrogate measure for bicarbonate is deeply entrenched in the reef aquarium hobby.

So, what is alkalinity? Alkalinity in a marine aquarium is simply a measure of the amount of acid (H+) required to reduce the pH to about 4.5, where all bicarbonate is converted into carbonic acid as follows:

HCO3- + H+ → H2CO3

The amount of acid needed is equal to the amount of bicarbonate present, so when performing an alkalinity titration with a test kit, you are counting the number of bicarbonate ions present. It is not, however, quite that simple since some other ions also take up acid during the titration. Both borate and carbonate also contribute to the measurement of alkalinity, but the bicarbonate dominates these other ions since they are generally lower in concentration than bicarbonate. So knowing the total alkalinity is akin to, but not exactly the same as, knowing how much bicarbonate is available to corals. In any case, total alkalinity is the standard that aquarists use for this purpose.

Unlike the calcium concentration, it is widely believed that certain organisms calcify more quickly at alkalinity levels higher than those in normal seawater. This result has also been demonstrated in the scientific literature, which has shown that adding bicarbonate to seawater increases the rate of calcification in some corals. Uptake of bicarbonate can consequently become rate limiting in many corals. This may be partly due to the fact that the external bicarbonate concentration is not large to begin with (relative to, for example, the calcium concentration, which is effectively about 5 times higher).

For these reasons, alkalinity maintenance is a critical aspect of coral reef aquarium husbandry. In the absence of supplementation, alkalinity will rapidly drop as corals use up much of what is present in seawater. Water changes are not usually sufficient to maintain alkalinity unless there is very little calcification taking place. Most reef aquarists try to maintain alkalinity at levels at or slightly above those of normal seawater, although exactly what levels different aquarists target depends a bit on the goals of their aquaria.

Interestingly, because some corals may calcify faster at higher alkalinity levels, and because the abiotic (nonbiological) precipitation of calcium carbonate on heaters and pumps also rises as alkalinity rises, the demand for alkalinity (and calcium) rises as the alkalinity rises. So an aquarist generally must dose more calcium and alkalinity EVERY DAY to maintain a higher alkalinity (say, 11 dKH) than to maintain 7 dKH. It is not just a one-time boost that is needed to make up that difference. In fact, calcification gets so slow as the alkalinity drops below 6 dKH that reef aquaria rarely get much below that point, even with no dosing: natural calcification has nearly stopped at that level.

In general, I suggest that aquarists maintain alkalinity between about 7-11 dKH (2.5 and 4 meq/L; 125-200 ppm CaCO3 equivalents). Many aquarists growing SPS corals and using Ultra Low Nutrient Systems (ULNS) have found that the corals suffer from "burnt tips" if the alkalinity is too high or changes too much. It is not at all clear why this is the case, but such aquaria are better served by alkalinity in the 7-8 dKH range.
As mentioned above, alkalinity levels above those in natural seawater increase the abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate on warm objects such as heaters and pump impellers, or sometimes even in sand beds. This precipitation not only wastes calcium and alkalinity that aquarists are carefully adding, but it also increases equipment maintenance requirements and can "damage" a sand bed, hardening it into a chunk of limestone. When elevated alkalinity is driving this precipitation, it can also depress the calcium level. An excessively high alkalinity level can therefore create undesirable consequences.

I suggest that aquarists use a balanced calcium and alkalinity additive system of some sort for routine maintenance. The most popular of these balanced methods include limewater (kalkwasser), calcium carbonate/carbon dioxide reactors, and the two-part/three part additive systems.

For rapid alkalinity corrections, aquarists can simply use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) or washing soda (sodium carbonate; baked baking soda) to good effect. The latter raises pH as well as alkalinity while the former has a very small pH lowering effect. Mixtures can also be used, and are what many hobby chemical supply companies sell as buffers. Most often, sodium carbonate is preferred, however, since most tanks can be helped by a pH boost.
 

TOP 10 Trending Threads

ARE YOU READY TO CONFESS TO CRAZIEST, DUMBEST, FUNNIEST THING YOU’VE EVER DONE IN REEFING?

  • Yeah, I'll confess! (Share your story in the comments!)

    Votes: 54 54.5%
  • Nah, I'll keep mine a secret...(Don't be like that, share with the class!)

    Votes: 45 45.5%
Back
Top
Home
Post thread…
Market
What's new