High aluminum

[flagg37]

Hey everyone, I was having some issues with my tank (corals losing color and some STN over about a 10 day period) so I sent in a water sample and did about a 45% water change. The results came back and I expected that there would be some trace elements a bit low (iodine, iron, cobalt) since I don’t do water changes but what I wasn’t expecting was my aluminum to be 342ppb.

As I searched, other people were saying their aluminum was high when it was 40-60. Could the aluminum be the reason for my issues? After the water change things have slowly been bouncing back.

 

[Saltyreef]

Assuming you are using 0tds rodi, anything else in the tank that may be leaching? Marinepure media or maybe (hopefully not) brightwell bio blocks?

There may be others but those are what stand out to me for aluminum contam.

 

[flagg37]

Assuming you are using 0tds rodi, anything else in the tank that may be leaching? Marinepure media or maybe (hopefully not) brightwell bio blocks?

There may be others but those are what stand out to me for aluminum contam.

The most likely culprit is the marine pure block. It is a second hand tank so I don’t know if it is truly marine pure or one of the ones like it. My question wasn’t really about the source but more about the effects of aluminum and if there is a particular concentration that is of concern. My previous research seemed to indicate that there wasn’t conclusive evidence to point to it being dangerous but I don’t know if that has changed.

 

[Pistondog]

The most likely culprit is the marine pure block. It is a second hand tank so I don’t know if it is truly marine pure or one of the ones like it. My question wasn’t really about the source but more about the effects of aluminum and if there is a particular concentration that is of concern. My previous research seemed to indicate that there wasn’t conclusive evidence to point to it being dangerous but I don’t know if that has changed.

Not conclusive evidence also for me. Emailed the head of marinepure and asked, for any known ill effects, none reposrted. The icp test will report any form of aluminum, reactive or not. For example aluminum oxide is very inert.
All that said, i did remove my marinepure 8x8x4 blocks in favour of live rock.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If that level is accurate, then it is a substantial concern, IMO. In my tests, I saw strong problems at 500 ppb and not at 50 ppb of soluble aluminum. I show the actual problems of added soluble aluminum on corals in the link below, and it was not testing out of the blue. It was well known decades ago that Seachem phosguard (aluminum oxide) could cause leather corals to shrink up. I was curious why and tested it. That effect was duplicated in my testing of pure aluminum chloride, and I also tested the phosguard for released aluminum, which it did.

Of course Marine Pure is not going to finger their own product. lol

No, aluminum oxide is not "inert" in the sense that none ever disoslves. It does dissolve if the amount in the water is below the solubility limit. That said, i am not sure how much of the released aluminum from phosguard was dissolved aluminum ion and how much was very small particles unable to be filtered out with a submicron filter.

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Aluminum In The Reef Aquarium ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, this paper shows that aluminum oxide ( a-Al2O3, 80-200 mesh) can dissolve up to several ppm of aluminum ions in sodium chloride solutions.

A study on the corrosion behavior of aluminum alloys in seawater

In this study, the aluminum alloys AA5083 and AA1100 were tested in seawater at 23 and 60°C. Polarization plots showed that the alloys suffered from p…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[Pistondog]

Of course Marine Pure is not going to finger their own product. lol

Of course not, but it takes 3 minutes to send an email and you might learn something.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Of course not, but it takes 3 minutes to send an email and you might learn something.

I think they have responded in the past. But let us know what they say.

CerMedia’s MarinePure and the report of an Aluminum Issue

We would like to take this opportunity to thank all you Reefers out there that have supported us through the years. MarinePure™ has been used for many years a

www.cermedia.com

"The aluminum amounts are significantly higher from the unfired ceramic bio-media product than in the MarinePure product, certainly outside of variations of the Triton test itself. The test clearly shows that CerMedia’s fired media is the better choice when compared to unfired aluminum based ceramic products."

 

[Pistondog]

I think they have responded in the past. But let us know what they say.

CerMedia’s MarinePure and the report of an Aluminum Issue

We would like to take this opportunity to thank all you Reefers out there that have supported us through the years. MarinePure™ has been used for many years a

www.cermedia.com

"The aluminum amounts are significantly higher from the unfired ceramic bio-media product than in the MarinePure product, certainly outside of variations of the Triton test itself. The test clearly shows that CerMedia’s fired media is the better choice when compared to unfired aluminum based ceramic products."

The query was years ago, that was his response.
Doesnt the form of aluminum, oxide vs chloride in our saltwater make a difference as to toxicity?
Thanks for your help wading thru this.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The query was years ago, that was his response.
Doesnt the form of aluminum, oxide vs chloride in our saltwater make a difference as to toxicity?
Thanks for your help wading thru this.

Dissolved aluminum ions leave behind any memory of where they cam from.

Particulates of aluminum hydroxide or aluminum oxide may certainly have different toxicity than do disoslved aluminum ions.

 

[flagg37]

It occurs to me that I’m probably in the minority, in that, I use their product and don’t do any water changes. People who do frequent or scheduled water changes probably mitigate their accumulation of the aluminum to a point where they may never run into an issue.

The tank has been running without a water change since October. I’m tempted to let it go and see if I start seeing the same issues. If so, I’ll remove the block, send in another sample for ICP testing, and do another large water change. I’m the mean time, I’ll start seeding some extra live rock in anticipation of the reduction in biological filtration provided by the block.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It occurs to me that I’m probably in the minority, in that, I use their product and don’t do any water changes. People who do frequent or scheduled water changes probably mitigate their accumulation of the aluminum to a point where they may never run into an issue.

The tank has been running without a water change since October. I’m tempted to let it go and see if I start seeing the same issues. If so, I’ll remove the block, send in another sample for ICP testing, and do another large water change. I’m the mean time, I’ll start seeding some extra live rock in anticipation of the reduction in biological filtration provided by the block.

Sounds great. keep us updated, please.

 

[flagg37]

Things started to go downhill again so I took another sample and removed the ceramic block and did another large water change (60%). The results of the ICP test did show a reduction in the aluminum although still a bit elevated. First test was 342 ppm on 3/30 and it was 152 ppm in the second test on 5/12.

I’m thinking the culprit may be depleting trace elements more than high aluminum. For example, my iron was at only 8 ppb on the first test and was at 4 ppb on the second. I had been running a fuge with chaeto so iron was the only element I was dosing but apparently not enough. Another example is iodine; was 4 ppb and then 2 ppb.

 

[FernFish]

Hey everyone, I was having some issues with my tank (corals losing color and some STN over about a 10 day period) so I sent in a water sample and did about a 45% water change. The results came back and I expected that there would be some trace elements a bit low (iodine, iron, cobalt) since I don’t do water changes but what I wasn’t expecting was my aluminum to be 342ppb.

As I searched, other people were saying their aluminum was high when it was 40-60. Could the aluminum be the reason for my issues? After the water change things have slowly been bouncing back.

I’m sorry but Those stairs look amazing

 

[flagg37]

I’m sorry but Those stairs look amazing

Thanks. I have to update my site. Some of my best ones aren’t even on there.

 

[sbreefer]

what is wrong with brightwell bio blocks?

 

[sbreefer]

Assuming you are using 0tds rodi, anything else in the tank that may be leaching? Marinepure media or maybe (hopefully not) brightwell bio blocks?

There may be others but those are what stand out to me for aluminum contam.

what is wrong with brightwell bio blocks? do they leach aluminum?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not know if the release aluminum or not.