High Levels of TOC in the Reef

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

Hello Guys,

I am a new user here, but an older aquarist.

In 2013, I start a new 1300g reef project called Concave Reef. All of the steps of the reef build can be found in this link http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2303265

Unfortunately, since that time I can’t stabilize the reef chemistry of this aquarium.

During the first 6 years of the reef I trying all of the mechanisms to run a coral reef, but the coral always dying. The fishes going very good, but softs, LPSs and hard coral’s, always dying. In my reef experience I ran at least 10 reefs in 25 years of experience, always successfully, but something happening with this reef.

Last year the Triton company starts to operate in Brazil and I got the problem. My reef has a lot of TOC, which is incompatible with the marine reef life. So, I found what’s responsible for the corals death.

This year, I am trying to find what’s responsible for the increase level of TOC, but I can’t find the source.

That’s is the reason of this threat, to find the source of this TOC. Someone can help me in this? Today, I run the reef totally Triton methods, without siporax as show in the Concave link.

Many thanks for all,

Daniel

 

[Saltyreef]

Total organic carbon.
I would follow tritons recommendations to correct this issue. They should give a recommendation.

 

[AquaBiomics]

Truly amazing system you've built there. How frustrating after all that to face a water chemistry issue.

That carbon has to be getting into the tank somehow... Am I understanding it correctly that the main display tank is somewhat exposed to the outdoors?

If so, I wonder whether pollen or something similar could be getting in?

 

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

Total organic carbon.
I would follow tritons recommendations to correct this issue. They should give a recommendation.

I already follow all of that recomendations, unfortunately the TOC levels remains too much high.

 

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

Truly amazing system you've built there. How frustrating after all that to face a water chemistry issue.

That carbon has to be getting into the tank somehow... Am I understanding it correctly that the main display tank is somewhat exposed to the outdoors?

If so, I wonder whether pollen or something similar could be getting in?

Hello AquaBiomics,

Many thanks for the answer.

The main display isn't exposed to outdoors. I agree with you, that carbon has to be getting into the tank somehow, but from what? I can't find. I am searching for the carbon source in all spaces of the reef, but nothing until now.

New ideas are very welcome!!!!!

Daniel

 

[Saltyreef]

It seems like you have quite the extensive setup so im sure/hope your mechanical filtration is properly setup.

Something as simple as too many nutrients, not enough export could be the cause....

 

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

The last N-doc Triton tests:

TIC 29.75 - pretty good
TOC 12.33 (0-4 setpoint) - bad
TC 42.09 - good
TNb 4.24 - bad

Following Triton, that high level of TOC increases the NO3 levels, in my case 18.74.

These alterations generate bacterial blooms causing a lack of oxygen according Triton.

So, I am still trying to find the carbon source.

 

[Saltyreef]

The last N-doc Triton tests:

TIC 29.75 - pretty good
TOC 12.33 (0-4 setpoint) - bad
TC 42.09 - good
TNb 4.24 - bad

Following Triton, that high level of TOC increases the NO3 levels, in my case 18.74.

These alterations generate bacterial blooms causing a lack of oxygen according Triton.

So, I am still trying to find the carbon source.

Have you considered any materials you used in your build to be leaching something?

I noticed you had siporax online but not anymore

 

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

It seems like you have quite the extensive setup so im sure/hope your mechanical filtration is properly setup.

Something as simple as too many nutrients, not enough export could be the cause....

Yes, the mechanical filtration is pretty, good skimmers, circulation. Not enought export could be, unfortunately, I cant find.....

 

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

Have you considered any materials you used in your build to be leaching something?

I noticed you had siporax online but not anymore

I only used Siporax in fist 3 months of the reef. Today, is running totally by Triton method!!!!!

I considered the materials. I check the pumps, the heaters....., but apparently is everything fine. I only traditional brands as Ehein, Deltec, Reeflo....

One another point to be concern is the plastic tubes that I used to communicate the display to the sump. This was build with plastic tubes (PVC) that we commonly use in the home builds here in Brazil. There is a lot of these tubes. I was thinking about these PVC tubes as a source of the carbon in the reef. This seems reasonable for you?

Many thanks

 

[HuduVudu]

What are your indoor CO2 levels?

 

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

Picture of the PVC tubes. There is a lot of PVC, much more that we can see in the picture.

 

[Saltyreef]

The pvc shouldnt be an issue....plenty of us are using it.
I do notice yours is a bit different colored and the fittings are a different shape from US spec but im not sure if theres a substantial difference in overall material makeup.

 

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

What are your indoor CO2 levels?

Hello HuduVudu,

There is no high levels of CO2 indoor.

In the past I have an issue with HCHO and TVOC levels in a home teather room near from the reef. That home teather was build with a lot of wood and that was the reason for the high levels of HCHO and TVOC. I have had to change the woods 2 years ago to solve that problem.

Today the HCHO level in indoor reef is 0.007 mg/m3 and TVOC level is 0.050 mg/m3. Very small levels of both!!!!!

I am very curious why did you ask about? There is some possibility to the high level of TOCs in the reef and indoor CO2 level?

Many thanks,

Daniel

 

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

The pvc shouldnt be an issue....plenty of us are using it.
I do notice yours is a bit different colored and the fittings are a different shape from US spec but im not sure if theres a substantial difference in overall material makeup.

The PVCs that we use here is brown, all of these.

I am thinking about the PVCs once the amount of that tubes used in the reef is too high when compared to the most of others reefs and also because I read some article of Mr. Handy Holmes talking about some kind of dangerous plastics that we use in our reefs.

Many thanks

 

[AquaBiomics]

Interesting puzzle.

What about food as a carbon source - what do you feed the tank?

 

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

Interesting puzzle.

What about food as a carbon source - what do you feed the tank?

Definitely AquaBiomics, a big puzzle.

I only use Sera GVG Mix, but some months ago I have had tryed frozen foods only thinking in food as a carbon source. The levels still remains high!!!!

 

[Cory]

Hey there, after looking over your thread, id strongly suspect this: can you say more about it?

What are you using in the bottom? Is it a fake sand bed? Please keep pictures comming

Hello Frontosa,

How are you?

Yes, it is some kind of cement sand bed, fake of course. However, necessary because reefs with substratum for example with aragonite has a short life-time. I did the same way that I did to atach the rocks as Worm asked me. I used some kind of white cement that we know here as "internal white cement floor under floor fast dry" from Quartzolite Weber Saint-Gobain. After the aplication is necessary to fill the aquarium with fresh water at least 4 times to avoid Ph alterations.

Rgds

Daniel

 

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

Hello Cory,

many thanks for your help.

I also suspected of that. I emailed Weber and talk to an engineer of that area and the answers are not convincence for me.

So, a few years ago I take off that cement and today the reef is running with aragonite substrate.

Daniel

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hello Guys,

I am a new user here, but an older aquarist.

In 2013, I start a new 1300g reef project called Concave Reef. All of the steps of the reef build can be found in this link http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2303265

Unfortunately, since that time I can’t stabilize the reef chemistry of this aquarium.

During the first 6 years of the reef I trying all of the mechanisms to run a coral reef, but the coral always dying. The fishes going very good, but softs, LPSs and hard coral’s, always dying. In my reef experience I ran at least 10 reefs in 25 years of experience, always successfully, but something happening with this reef.

Last year the Triton company starts to operate in Brazil and I got the problem. My reef has a lot of TOC, which is incompatible with the marine reef life. So, I found what’s responsible for the corals death.

This year, I am trying to find what’s responsible for the increase level of TOC, but I can’t find the source.

That’s is the reason of this threat, to find the source of this TOC. Someone can help me in this? Today, I run the reef totally Triton methods, without siporax as show in the Concave link.

Many thanks for all,

Daniel

I am highly skeptical that high TOC in general is killing your corals.

what level did they detect?