High Phosphates?

[Treefer32]

So, I have a low bioload (I feel) on a 350 gallon system. Around 17-18 fish of which 3 are large tangs (6-8") most everything else is average 3-4". I run a L4 Turbo Aquatics Algae Turf Scrubber, a diablo skimmer, And a Nu-clear cannister 25 micron filter. I swap the filter cartridge out every three weeks and clean it. I clean the scrubber every 6-7 days and it's solid full of hair algae. I feed 1/2 sheet of Nori and around 2 oz of homemade frozen food a day. I dose reef energy AB+ 1-2 days a week (about half what the bottle says).

My phosphates just tested at .12-.16 on a red sea pro. The reagents are expired as of 4/20 on the test kit. Nitrates tested at 16-20 on the high range test also with expired reagents. Tank is 2 years old as of today. I get film algae on the glass, otherwise the display is void of any hair algae or Bryopsis. It's clean. Occasionally my powerheads will grow a small amount of macro algae.

I was reading that some corals won't grow very well (or at all) if phosphates are above .05 -.09. If my tests are accurate, my phosphates are 2-3 times what is acceptable for some corals. I do 1-2 10% water changes a week with 0 TDS water. In my Cannister filter I run 2 250ml bags of purigen media. They may need changing, but, would be better off running a bag of GFO? I'm just thinking on a 350 gallon system GFO would be exhausted in a day.

I'm not wanting to chase numbers and am happy there's no algae's in my display other than on the glass. Is there anything cost effective to run that would be efficient to export phosphates. Not too worried about nitrates. I feel they're in a healthy range. The only thing I can think of is a second scrubber, but that's not cheap either..

 

[LRT]

How do your corals look?
Its an absolute myth that your corals won't grow with phosphate above .1
There are several of the most successful reefs here that run much higher phosphates with great success.

 

[Pistondog]

Could always dose vinegar or vodka to bring it down some.

 

[LRT]

So, I have a low bioload (I feel) on a 350 gallon system. Around 17-18 fish of which 3 are large tangs (6-8") most everything else is average 3-4". I run a L4 Turbo Aquatics Algae Turf Scrubber, a diablo skimmer, And a Nu-clear cannister 25 micron filter. I swap the filter cartridge out every three weeks and clean it. I clean the scrubber every 6-7 days and it's solid full of hair algae. I feed 1/2 sheet of Nori and around 2 oz of homemade frozen food a day. I dose reef energy AB+ 1-2 days a week (about half what the bottle says).

My phosphates just tested at .12-.16 on a red sea pro. The reagents are expired as of 4/20 on the test kit. Nitrates tested at 16-20 on the high range test also with expired reagents. Tank is 2 years old as of today. I get film algae on the glass, otherwise the display is void of any hair algae or Bryopsis. It's clean. Occasionally my powerheads will grow a small amount of macro algae.

I was reading that some corals won't grow very well (or at all) if phosphates are above .05 -.09. If my tests are accurate, my phosphates are 2-3 times what is acceptable for some corals. I do 1-2 10% water changes a week with 0 TDS water. In my Cannister filter I run 2 250ml bags of purigen media. They may need changing, but, would be better off running a bag of GFO? I'm just thinking on a 350 gallon system GFO would be exhausted in a day.

I'm not wanting to chase numbers and am happy there's no algae's in my display other than on the glass. Is there anything cost effective to run that would be efficient to export phosphates. Not too worried about nitrates. I feel they're in a healthy range. The only thing I can think of is a second scrubber, but that's not cheap either..

Honestly after re reading your post. The amount of preventative acrion your already taking. The age of your tank as well as amount of livestock and food you feed. I have to say its impressive at least to me anyway lol.
What kind of clean up crew do you have? If your concerned about algea on the glass get some astreas and turbos.
The fact you don't have an issue with gha or other nuisance algae growing on rocks etc is also impressive.
If its not broken dont fix it. Corals love stabile and everytime ive tried to chase numbers ive created issues.
There are tons of more experienced better reefers than me with better input im sure so I say all this humbly..
Check out @Thales build thread for starters though.

 

[Treefer32]

Thanks for the comments! Of course being home 24/7 I always see the things that could improve. Yes, I definitely view the amount of GHA that's growing in the scrubber, if I didn't have that, can't imagine amount of gha in the display.

So, thanks! I have to accept that which is doing well. I've had issues with Acans specifically. My Acros are growing rapidly, as well as two colonies of hammers. One colony just is growing three new baby branches. Which is phenomenal! I have ricordea reproducing. So, overall things are doing well. However, I have a Favite with it's flesh dieing off, and three colonies of acans not growing. A stylopora with chronic dino infection. My biggest concern is the acans. I love them, but, was thinking maybe it's the phosphates. Saw a youtube video that indicated acans won't be healthy if phosphates are high. But, if that's not the case, I'll continue hand feeding them every couple days and see if they start recovering.

I would say 80% of corals are all healthy.

As to CUC... I have none. I had 4 mexican turbo snails. Which, my dragon wrasse flipped over and they all eventually died. I have some nassarious snails, which I find occasionally when moving sand around. I have a konch that my dragon wrasse moves around the tank, but it's still alive. I have hundreds (maybe thousands) of asterina starfish. I pulled out a 4 inch flat rock and it had several dozen asterina's on it. So, my only cleanup crew is asterina starfish. I'm fine with that, they are sticking to algae on the rocks and glass.

But, I just always want to improve things. Why improve that which is doing good!

 

[LRT]

Thanks for the comments! Of course being home 24/7 I always see the things that could improve. Yes, I definitely view the amount of GHA that's growing in the scrubber, if I didn't have that, can't imagine amount of gha in the display.

So, thanks! I have to accept that which is doing well. I've had issues with Acans specifically. My Acros are growing rapidly, as well as two colonies of hammers. One colony just is growing three new baby branches. Which is phenomenal! I have ricordea reproducing. So, overall things are doing well. However, I have a Favite with it's flesh dieing off, and three colonies of acans not growing. A stylopora with chronic dino infection. My biggest concern is the acans. I love them, but, was thinking maybe it's the phosphates. Saw a youtube video that indicated acans won't be healthy if phosphates are high. But, if that's not the case, I'll continue hand feeding them every couple days and see if they start recovering.

I would say 80% of corals are all healthy.

As to CUC... I have none. I had 4 mexican turbo snails. Which, my dragon wrasse flipped over and they all eventually died. I have some nassarious snails, which I find occasionally when moving sand around. I have a konch that my dragon wrasse moves around the tank, but it's still alive. I have hundreds (maybe thousands) of asterina starfish. I pulled out a 4 inch flat rock and it had several dozen asterina's on it. So, my only cleanup crew is asterina starfish. I'm fine with that, they are sticking to algae on the rocks and glass.

But, I just always want to improve things. Why improve that which is doing good!

Since your having issues with death and decay it could possibly be something else.
its crazy you mention that because I frequent an lfs that has some super nice DT'S. However they do have a cans in the tank that is displaying that kind of degradation.
Maybe @fishguy242 can help or can call in someone else that is more familiar.

Sure it will be asked but where has rest of your params been sitting far as alk, temp and salinity swings?
I always get sketched out when I ask the lady at lfs what are parameters and try to dig a little deeper and all she can tell me is she does biweekly water changes and thats it.

 

[fishguy242]

hi ,i think adding some phosguard/ kent phos sponge,or a phos pad ,will help suck up some ,get you to where you want,let work couple weeks remove,scrubber shoud take over from there

 

[LRT]

hi ,i think adding some phosguard/ kent phos sponge,or a phos pad ,will help suck up some ,get you to where you want,let work couple weeks remove,scrubber shoud take over from there

I added chemipure elite.
System is 160 gallons give or take. Just spot checked and phosphates went from .15 ish to .03 in a month with the medium sized bag on return pump side as advertised.
Took it out because I dont want to bottom out. See where it ends up with good husbandry and due diligence from here

 

[Treefer32]

Nice. I have a spot to hold media bags in my Cannister Filter. May try running something, I don't want it to swing real low. And cause issues with other corals. Most things are doing well, just a couple things that are showing negative signs.

I may try a low amount of phosphate remover to see if things improve. Slow and gradual changes.

 

[92Miata]

I agree with the post that your current levels arent anything to worry about.


That being said - 3 weeks is way too long to leave mechanical filtration between cleaning. When people use filter socks and such - they're typically changed either daily, or every couple of days. Ie, the canister is probably doing more damage than good.

 

[Treefer32]

I agree with the post that your current levels arent anything to worry about.


That being said - 3 weeks is way too long to leave mechanical filtration between cleaning. When people use filter socks and such - they're typically changed either daily, or every couple of days. Ie, the canister is probably doing more damage than good.

It's just a paper filter cartridge at 25 microns to catch debris. I take it out at three weeks, swap a clean one. It's like a pool filter. As folded paper catches debris from ther water the flow through the filter decreases as the debris builds up. At about the three to 4 week the water through the filter is just a trickle. I swap the cartridge, spray the old one off and soak it in bleach for a few days, then spray it off again, then soak in prime and RODI water. Then I have a clean filter ready for the next time I need to swap it. I'm debating expanding it to an inline 100 micron filter that then feeds a 25 micron filter to decrease the time in between changing the paper cartridges. In theory I should be able to go 2-3 months without changing them, but then I have two filters to clean and change.

 

[92Miata]

It's just a paper filter cartridge at 25 microns to catch debris. I take it out at three weeks, swap a clean one. It's like a pool filter. As folded paper catches debris from ther water the flow through the filter decreases as the debris builds up. At about the three to 4 week the water through the filter is just a trickle. I swap the cartridge, spray the old one off and soak it in bleach for a few days, then spray it off again, then soak in prime and RODI water. Then I have a clean filter ready for the next time I need to swap it. I'm debating expanding it to an inline 100 micron filter that then feeds a 25 micron filter to decrease the time in between changing the paper cartridges. In theory I should be able to go 2-3 months without changing them, but then I have two filters to clean and change.

The point is that all that debris is breaking down over the course of the month when you'd be better off skimming it out.

Ideally you want food particles to either get eaten immediately, or be gone from the tank.

 

[Treefer32]

The point is that all that debris is breaking down over the course of the month when you'd be better off skimming it out.

Ideally you want food particles to either get eaten immediately, or be gone from the tank.

Good point. The particles is mostly sand. I have a Dragon wrasse that digs in the sand constantly. He's worse than a sand sifting goby. He uses his tail to dig a 3-4" deep hole by 2-3 inches around in the sand, pulls rock out then goes and digs a different whole. Much of the day the tank is a sand storm. That the filter pulls the sand out of the water before going back into the display. Before I put the filter on I had sand constantly swirling in the water column. (for the last 2 years). I realized it's the Dragon Wrasse when I saw a tornado of sand one afternoon. I caught him red handed digging.

When I spray the cartridge off the garage floor is covered in sand. Sure, there's probably some food breaking down. But, I would say 80-90% of the particles is sand.

 

[Leo_ian]

i will say this, dont bother chasing numbers. keep it stable. that is the most important thing. phosphates will not kill until like 5-10. nitrates will not kill unless 50+ I have kept a reef tank that was constantly growing while it was high on nutrients, granted it was mostly softies. but it was stable, the corals adapted and the thrived in the conditions. keep your numbers stable

 

[Rickyrooz]

I just tested my phosphates for the first time in two months with the Hanna ULR Phosphorous checker and they were 0.32 and nitrates were 25 on the Salifert kit. I wouldn't chase numbers, just stick to weekly water changes. I let my corals tell me when something is wrong. Alkalinity is more of a number you want to keep stable and "chase".

 

[Gogo007]

I just tested my phosphates for the first time in two months with the Hanna ULR Phosphorous checker and they were 0.32 and nitrates were 25 on the Salifert kit. I wouldn't chase numbers, just stick to weekly water changes. I let my corals tell me when something is wrong. Alkalinity is more of a number you want to keep stable and "chase".

Its amazing tank very nice to get this point but let me one of my problems .. i was running my tank at 0 nitrate and 0.06 phosphate my alk was 8.3 . One day i decide to use activated carbon i got carbon from friend he told me it is good carbon i put some carbon in the filter socks keep it for 4 days then i tested my phos and alk !! I got the phos up to 0.54 ! Alk went to 9.4 where there are no consumption and my dosing pump was running in its schedule !! Some colors of the corals went like faint ! Zoanthid and acro start to go to brown side !! I was amazed i decided to dose lanthanum chloride i bring down the phos to 0.02 in two days and then i did water change 10% but at the time of water change i felt some of sensitive acros make mucas film !! Next day i lost one of my best acro ! Stn in couple of hours !! It was schoke for me ! But i am still learning i should not do that fast response i should wait get the po4 slowly and keep my eyes in kh but my leak of knowledge and my fear drives me to that ... After i saw your post i know its just stability and the corals will adapt to what happen if you drive the problem slowly or if you could act in wise matter !!