Hippo tang ich, freshwater dip or not?

DarkShadow

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I have a hippo tang, foxface and longnose hawkfish in quarantine. Since last Sunday the hippo has been showing signs of ich. I started treatment with Colombo Cobrasal, which is a non reef safe treatment available here in the EU, but the treatment seems to have little to no effect. The tang keeps scratching, but is still eating good, and he is well fed. He is also the only one with ich spots, the foxface and hawkfish are completely fine. I have ordered a Hanna checker and Seachem Cupramine, which should be here tomorrow.

My question is, should I do a freshwater dip to relief the hippo of some of the ich parasites? I have read a fw dip is not as effective for ich, so I'm wondering if I should put him through the stress or just wait untill tomorrow and start cupramine.

Also, should I perform one or two water changes before starting cupramine, as I've already had the tank treated with Cobrasal, or just check the copper level with the Hanna checker and if there is some there, adjust accordingly?
 

vetteguy53081

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I have a hippo tang, foxface and longnose hawkfish in quarantine. Since last Sunday the hippo has been showing signs of ich. I started treatment with Colombo Cobrasal, which is a non reef safe treatment available here in the EU, but the treatment seems to have little to no effect. The tang keeps scratching, but is still eating good, and he is well fed. He is also the only one with ich spots, the foxface and hawkfish are completely fine. I have ordered a Hanna checker and Seachem Cupramine, which should be here tomorrow.

My question is, should I do a freshwater dip to relief the hippo of some of the ich parasites? I have read a fw dip is not as effective for ich, so I'm wondering if I should put him through the stress or just wait untill tomorrow and start cupramine.

Also, should I perform one or two water changes before starting cupramine, as I've already had the tank treated with Cobrasal, or just check the copper level with the Hanna checker and if there is some there, adjust accordingly?
Freshwater will offer Temporary relief to flukes and brook and not ich and as you found, most reef safe ich treatments simply do not work and are regarded as tonics often containing peroxide salts and teak tree oils. Once you receive cupramine, do not exceed copper level .5 and maintain this level for a full 30 days maintaining steady copper level. Also monitor ammonia level in quarantine with a reliable test kit. If you need to change water, simply mix the new water and add copper to match that of the qt copper level.
If you are positive you have ich and other fish are in the tank with it, you might as well treat them too as they have been exposed and leave the display tank fishless for 4-6 weeks with 6 weeks recommended
 

MnFish1

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I have a hippo tang, foxface and longnose hawkfish in quarantine. Since last Sunday the hippo has been showing signs of ich. I started treatment with Colombo Cobrasal, which is a non reef safe treatment available here in the EU, but the treatment seems to have little to no effect. The tang keeps scratching, but is still eating good, and he is well fed. He is also the only one with ich spots, the foxface and hawkfish are completely fine. I have ordered a Hanna checker and Seachem Cupramine, which should be here tomorrow.

My question is, should I do a freshwater dip to relief the hippo of some of the ich parasites? I have read a fw dip is not as effective for ich, so I'm wondering if I should put him through the stress or just wait untill tomorrow and start cupramine.

Also, should I perform one or two water changes before starting cupramine, as I've already had the tank treated with Cobrasal, or just check the copper level with the Hanna checker and if there is some there, adjust accordingly?
The medication contains "Formaldehyde Copper sulphate Malachite green". Have you been checking copper levels - or do they recommend it with the product.

Assuming it is ich and not something else, I wouldn't do a FW dip. I might consider measuring copper levels with the cobrasal - it may help figure out 'why it's not working'.
 

MnFish1

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Freshwater will offer Temporary relief to flukes and brook and not ich and as you found, most reef safe ich treatments simply do not work and are regarded as tonics often containing peroxide salts and teak tree oils. Once you receive cupramine, do not exceed copper level .5 and maintain this level for a full 30 days maintaining steady copper level. Also monitor ammonia level in quarantine with a reliable test kit. If you need to change water, simply mix the new water and add copper to match that of the qt copper level.
If you are positive you have ich and other fish are in the tank with it, you might as well treat them too as they have been exposed and leave the display tank fishless for 4-6 weeks with 6 weeks recommended
This product is not 'reef safe'. Its main ingredient is copper sulfate and formaldehyde and malachite green. Just so people aren't confused. (And, except the copper levels being too low, I'm not sure why it wouldn't work). It may be that to get copper levels as high as needed, the formaldehyde becomes more of an issue
 

vetteguy53081

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This product is not 'reef safe'. Its main ingredient is copper sulfate and formaldehyde and malachite green. Just so people aren't confused.
We know that- and as I stated and he found- reef safe tonics do not work
 
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DarkShadow

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The Cobrasal tells me to add 2.5 ml for every 100 liters on day 1, 2 , 3 , 4 , 6 , 8 , 10 and 12. I am now on day 6 of the treatment. So I am kind of curious to test the copper level tomorrow.
 

MnFish1

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We know that- and as I stated and he found- reef safe tonics do not work
Sorry - I don't understand. The only product he used was cobrasal - which is basically a copper sulphate solution with formaldehyde and malachite green? He didn't use a 'reef safe tonic. BTW - I was writing what I was writing when you were posting - so sorry if it was unclear. My point was that I don't see any reason that cobrasal would not work for Ich. It would be really nice to see a picture - since - after multiple days of copper therapy, there should be a change. The 'spots' could very well be mucus cones or scarring from Ich.
 

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My tank has had Ich for years but i keep things manageable with a strong UV sterilizer. When I add a new fish, as i did recently with an achilles tang, i assume they will also get it. I just make sure they are very healthy and well fed when i add them, feed them well and 95% of the time they make a full recovery and are then more immune to Ich moving forward. My $0.02
 
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DarkShadow

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And my entire situation is as follow:

DT ~ 33 gallon, several standard small fish (2x clowns, royal gramma, tail spot blenny, banggai cardinal, azure damsel)

Quarantine ~ 35 gallon, hippo tang, foxface, longnose hawkfish

Big ~ 330 gallon system is coming later this month or early April

I did put a rock from my dt into my quarantine, so I am aware that the ich could very well be from my display tank. I think my plan of attack is to put all the rock and coral from my dt into my new system, together with new rock, add clean up crew and let is go fallow for the 70+ days. Meanwhile I start treating my former dt with cupramine. Once that is done and the quarantine fish are all healthy, add them to the new system.
 
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DarkShadow

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And some pictures as requested MnFish1, not the best as the ******* is quick :p


1.jpg


2.jpg
 

MnFish1

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And my entire situation is as follow:

DT ~ 33 gallon, several standard small fish (2x clowns, royal gramma, tail spot blenny, banggai cardinal, azure damsel)

Quarantine ~ 35 gallon, hippo tang, foxface, longnose hawkfish

Big ~ 330 gallon system is coming later this month or early April

I did put a rock from my dt into my quarantine, so I am aware that the ich could very well be from my display tank. I think my plan of attack is to put all the rock and coral from my dt into my new system, together with new rock, add clean up crew and let is go fallow for the 70+ days. Meanwhile I start treating my former dt with cupramine. Once that is done and the quarantine fish are all healthy, add them to the new system.
Additionally the rock can be adsorbing copper - and causing your levels to decrease. I would not use that rock again in your display tank - since it has been exposed to copper
 
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DarkShadow

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So I just checked, and after a 15% water change, it measures 0.32 ppm. So do I add a tiny dose of cupramine to try and get it to 0.5 ppm?
 
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DarkShadow

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Just an update, for those who might be googling Colombo Cobrasal:

I continued the treatment for another week, still didn't see any improvements, but I thought mixing the medication probably wasn't a good idea so I did 6 water changes (20%) and ran activated carbon over 9 days. Just started the first dose of Cupramine, the tang is still eating like a champion despite having ich for 3 weeks now, seems like he is quite a strong fella.

Long story short, don't use Colombo Cobrasal, just get the Seachem Cupramine instead. Or buy Copper Power from the US if you want to be fancy :)
 

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