How Helpful is Ocean Live Rock?

[Always Be Reefin]

I recently started up a 20 gallon tank Exclusively with Marco Dry Rock and bottled bacteria and CaribSea live sand. I know it will take much longer for my tank to mature doing it this way instead of ocean live rock which is filled with a wider variety of beneficial bacteria. The reason I chose my current path is because I don't want to deal with any pests or anything that would be a nightmare to deal with.

While watching a video on algae, I heard someone mentioning an alternative to getting chunks of live rock. They suggested live rock rubble which would be very small, reduce the risk of pests due to its size, and quickly seed the tank with beneficial bacteria.

I know I said a lit up to this point, but here is my question. How helpful would it be for me to get live rock rubble instead of going the course I'm going? Is the ocean bacteria significantly better to combat issues in a tank? Is the only difference the speed in which my dry rock would be coated in coralline algae? Is there more I'm not thinking about? Thanks in advance for any answers

 

[design.maddie]

The rubble will have the same hitchhiker possibilities as a larger piece of rock. Whatever you would get from purchasing the rubble you will most likely get from frag plugs with frags.

 

[jkcoral]

Live rock or rubble would introduce good variety of micro fauna and bacteria, and could speed up the spreading of coralline. Diversity of micro fauna and bacteria is a good thing, but over time you would end up at the same place by staying on your current course. Additional bacteria will be introduced over time as you add corals.

The advantage of live rock/rubble is accelerated maturing of the tank. But it’s not required.


Edit: I just saw that you’re from Tampa. I’ve always thought the little treasure boxes of rubble from TBS looked interesting for a nano. If I was that close, I’d give it a try.

 

[design.maddie]

I just saw that you’re from Tampa....boxes of rubble from TBS looked interesting for a nano. If I was that close, I’d give it a try.

This is a really good suggestion. If I lived in Tampa, I would select this option without a second thought.

 

[a.t.t.r]

Starting a tank with 0 actual live rock is a PITA. Find some rubble to seed your tank with.

It is not just the bacteria it is the micro flora and fauna that help keep a tank in line.

 

[Always Be Reefin]

Live rock or rubble would introduce good variety of micro fauna and bacteria, and could speed up the spreading of coralline. Diversity of micro fauna and bacteria is a good thing, but over time you would end up at the same place by staying on your current course. Additional bacteria will be introduced over time as you add corals.

The advantage of live rock/rubble is accelerated maturing of the tank. But it’s not required.


Edit: I just saw that you’re from Tampa. I’ve always thought the little treasure boxes of rubble from TBS looked interesting for a nano. If I was that close, I’d give it a try.

This is a really good suggestion. If I lived in Tampa, I would select this option without a second thought.

I know of Tampa Bay Saltwater from it being name dropped in videoes I've watched, but I never really looked I to it because they don't have a physical storefront. Just looked at their website tho.

What is it about their live rock treasure boxes that make them so appealing? From how these messages read, sounds like proximity is a big reason why I should look into it. Lastly, since this was my main concern before, should I not be worried about hitchhikers/pests as much as I am and just shoot for live rock?

 

[a.t.t.r]

I know of Tampa Bay Saltwater from it being name dropped in videoes I've watched, but I never really looked I to it because they don't have a physical storefront. Just looked at their website tho.

What is it about their live rock treasure boxes that make them so appealing? From how these messages read, sounds like proximity is a big reason why I should look into it. Lastly, since this was my main concern before, should I not be worried about hitchhikers/pests as much as I am and just shoot for live rock?

it is just super fresh is why. Most rock is shipped over seas and wrapped in wet newspaper for multiple days before landing. Don't worry about hitch hikers... you will get them no matter what you do and the only real 'bad' one that would be from LR would be mantis shrimp.

 

[JoJosReef]

Wow, if I lived in Tampa I would fill every single tank I owned with TBS rocks. How helpful is it? I don't think there is a way to quantify its effect. We make several assumptions based on what we know from microbiome analysis, and that assumption is that >diversity equals better tank. That is an assumption and others will argue that it is wrong, that dry rocks can be just as good and just as successful as ocean rocks.

Whatever. I've had both. My ocean rocks have proven extremely resilient and resistant to nuisance algae (except Valonia, which apparently could care less about your diversity), while my dry rocks were basically nuisance algae crop rotation farms. Even in the same tank, the ocean rocks were clean, the dry rocks covered in GHA.

So a lot depends on how your manage your dry rocks. It could be a nightmare with you pulling out handfuls of GHA every day, or you could be one of those people that has a super clean pest-free tank that by some combination of husbandry practices manages to avoid the nuisance algae.

Answer to your question: I think adding any type of ocean rock to your tank, whether big rocks or rubble, will help seed your tank and potentially move things faster. You might get a gorilla crab or a worm or a pistol shrimp or a mantis shrimp or hydroids or a flatworm or a nudibranch, though. Maybe cirolanid isopods, maybe spheromatid isopods. Maybe something crazy that we haven't even ID'd here yet. Enjoy your piece of the ocean!

 

[JoJosReef]

it is just super fresh is why. Most rock is shipped over seas and wrapped in wet newspaper for multiple days before landing. Don't worry about hitch hikers... you will get them no matter what you do and the only real 'bad' one that would be from LR would be mantis shrimp.

If he's going rock rubble, he could probably leave the rocks in a bucket for a day or so to find out if there are mantis or pistol shrimp (or gorilla crabs or anything else, really). The real "bad" one would be cirolanid isopods, which are possibly the hardest to remove and should be removed. Can also see if you have those by QT'ing the rock for a day or two.

 

[7of9]

If it's in your budget DEFINITELY go for it. If not, try to get at least some live rock locally, either from a LFS or a fellow reefer. More is better, ocean is best, but any bit helps.

Hitchikers really aren't as big of a problem as I thought they would be. I used TBS for my first tank and local live rock for my current tank.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

These are the same type of rocks just from KP Aquatics. This is the second time I have used these in a tank to start. The rocks were shipped basically same day in water on a South West plane.

After explosive ammonia that my attempts with seeded biomedia failed, I decided to dark cure for 30 days. On roughly the 31st day I added a ton of copepods (and amphipods), and have added 3xs that amount since. The process started on 7/4ish and the only thing I have had to deal with is diatoms. And, I think I was allowing a high level of silicates through on my water changes as I didn't catch a problem with my mixing station until this past weekend. I was originally going to do this as a bare bottom, but since I had such a massive die off up front, I feared not have an ideal start for a bare bottom. But, (knocking on wood) so far the utilitarian fish are all doing their jobs, the pods are as well and the bio must be working. I am running it sock free and skimmer off still to sort of "muck it up" if you will. I think this weekend I will put a roller on it and turn the skimmer on. But, you can clearly feel managing the start up this way differently. I am seriously considering removing the sand at this point, but who know what that would cause. If I lived in TB, the money I could save could be reinvested into more tanks, lol. I am completely #jelly that you are that close to them. Shoot, it's a no brainer! I am about to order 20-25 acros for this, so I need to make up my mind what I am going to do.

 

[Digimes]

Live rock or rubble would introduce good variety of micro fauna and bacteria, and could speed up the spreading of coralline. Diversity of micro fauna and bacteria is a good thing, but over time you would end up at the same place by staying on your current course. Additional bacteria will be introduced over time as you add corals.

The advantage of live rock/rubble is accelerated maturing of the tank. But it’s not required.


Edit: I just saw that you’re from Tampa. I’ve always thought the little treasure boxes of rubble from TBS looked interesting for a nano. If I was that close, I’d give it a try.

Looks like TBS is up for sale (retirement).

 

[jkcoral]

I know of Tampa Bay Saltwater from it being name dropped in videoes I've watched, but I never really looked I to it because they don't have a physical storefront. Just looked at their website tho.

What is it about their live rock treasure boxes that make them so appealing? From how these messages read, sounds like proximity is a big reason why I should look into it. Lastly, since this was my main concern before, should I not be worried about hitchhikers/pests as much as I am and just shoot for live rock?

I always found the treasure boxes appealing just because I thought the little boxes of rubble would’ve been perfect “portion size” for a small tank. And especially because all of my tanks are bare bottom, the smaller chunks of rubble would be easy to include in the back chamber for effective biological filtration while being able to keep the bigger chunks in the display.

And sure, you always have to consider pests. But this is true for anything you add to the tank. Adding coral, snails, anything can introduce pests. But with the smaller chunks of “rubble,” I’d imagine it’s a lot easier to spot any bad hitchhikers versus a bad crab being able to hide deep inside a 5 pound chunk of rock.

Also, proximity would definitely be an incentive. I live in the East Orlando area, and Tampa is far enough away that I’d have to do shipping. Being able to get that stuff locally without having to ship would be a huge plus.

You mentioned that your tank has Marco rock. If you did decide to get some smaller rock, it would give a huge jump start to your existing marco.

 

[Always Be Reefin]

Looks like TBS is up for sale (retirement).

Where did you see that? That would be unfortunate if I get a bunch of recommendations on a good place just to hears they're going out of business

 

[Always Be Reefin]

I always found the treasure boxes appealing just because I thought the little boxes of rubble would’ve been perfect “portion size” for a small tank. And especially because all of my tanks are bare bottom, the smaller chunks of rubble would be easy to include in the back chamber for effective biological filtration while being able to keep the bigger chunks in the display.

And sure, you always have to consider pests. But this is true for anything you add to the tank. Adding coral, snails, anything can introduce pests. But with the smaller chunks of “rubble,” I’d imagine it’s a lot easier to spot any bad hitchhikers versus a bad crab being able to hide deep inside a 5 pound chunk of rock.

Also, proximity would definitely be an incentive. I live in the East Orlando area, and Tampa is far enough away that I’d have to do shipping. Being able to get that stuff locally without having to ship would be a huge plus.

You mentioned that your tank has Marco rock. If you did decide to get some smaller rock, it would give a huge jump start to your existing

I have two structures I made. A large amd small one. I'm debating between two options now. Either get the rubble and place that all around the tank, or get the 5 pounds of rock and replace the smaller dry rock structure with live rock. Rubble is $40 more because it's 8 pounds, so idk what is best

 

[jkcoral]

I have two structures I made. A large amd small one. I'm debating between two options now. Either get the rubble and place that all around the tank, or get the 5 pounds of rock and replace the smaller dry rock structure with live rock. Rubble is $40 more because it's 8 pounds, so idk what is best

Hm. They say the treasure box of rubble rock is rocks about the size of a golf ball. The treasure box of base rock (5lbs) says 4”-7” pieces. I guess it just depends on what you want to do. You could always get the base rock for ~$45 and build what you want, and break what is left it into smaller chunks for rubble.

 

[kevgib67]

In 18 years of reefing and multiple tanks I have only used live rock. I don’t recall ever having a hitchhiker that was not easy to deal with. I can only recall a fireworm.

 

[nuxx]

Starting a tank with 0 actual live rock is a PITA. Find some rubble to seed your tank with.

It is not just the bacteria it is the micro flora and fauna that help keep a tank in line.

Yeah was going to start my tank with hundreds of pounds of marco rock, luckily had a local reefer who ran an aquafarm, he just toss it all in his system for a few months...

 

[RyanN]

I got a box from them last week. I did the treasure chest 8 pound box and I have not seen any bad hitchhikers so far. I do have an anemone that resembles an aiptasia but it's definitely not the same and would be easy to remove if I chose to. I also got a hidden cup coral and a coral that looks like a galaxea but I know that's not what it is. I had 0 ammonia and the rock was in the box 24 hours. This rock was for a 15 gallon I set up a few weeks ago and I'm so happy with the rock I'm contemplating taking some of the rock out my 45 gallon and replacing it with more TBS rock. The amount of life on the rock is insane.

 

[Edgecrusher28]

Here is a before and after Aquabiomics test that shows the significant improvement in bacteria population when using true live rock. The before test was a tank that was approaching 1.5 years old and was started mostly with clean dark cured rock. The second "after" test was done about 4 weeks later.