How much Aluminum will it leach? Let's guess

[jason2459]

What kind of leather coral? It also all depends on the form of Aluminium that is being detected. Randy has shown soluble Al can cause a negative reaction with a leather coral. I'm thinking it was a fiji yellow leather coral?

If I remember right, Triton suggests alternating between using an iron based phosphate binding media and an aluminum based phosphate binding media. I believe under the assumption that the GFO will help bind aluminum that may have leached into the water from the Al based product.

There have also been others that report negative effects with their various kinds of soft coral. And yes there could be many explanations fort those issues.

There's also many that claim n0 side effects with any corals.

 

[FranklinDattein]

It is a Toadstool leather and it will survive in sewage
On the other hand, I haven't been able to introduce mushroons to this tank (besides a large colony that is with me for years) and I was blaming high flow and ULNS. It might be that high Aluminum might is part of the reason...

 

[jason2459]

Another intersting event to note. I just somewhat finished up my new sump stand and setup the sump recently. I brought it online a couple days ago. All looked well all day and into the evening and all day yesterday. I got around to transferring the MP block yesterday evening and very quickly the fiji leather reacted badly again.

It ended up turning into that angry tight ball again.

I'm wondering if its fines from the media that it does not like one bit. My block did come with that corner broke off and it rubs off very easily.

 

[saltyhog]

Great thread! I'm looking forward to the results.

I placed two large MP blocks in my sump in Jan. I don't have a leather but I do have a duncan and lots of SPS, LPS, zoas, palys and a couple of fungia that are all doing well. I have not noticed any adverse effects but I also have not seen any effect on my nitrates either. I'm going to send off a Triton test in a week or two and I'll check back in with the results when I get them bak.

 

[jason2459]

It's so weird but my system is doing the exact same things as when I first put the block in.

Fiji Yellow leather extremely angry as seen above.

My pH takes a dive for one night

And my sponges all look terrible and my one most visible one has a huge gapping hole again

My thoughts (which could be wrong)

1. The leather reacts badly to the fines from the block

2. The block is extremely porous and is a very good home for bacteria

2a. It drained out a LOT of water when I took it out to transfer sumps. And I gave it a quick swish in saltwater again and let it drain again before adding to the new sump.

2b. This exported a lot of bacteria

3. New colonization of bacteria occured again fairly rapidly due to also carbon dosing with vinegar/vodka mix. This drops the pH.

Sponges? No idea

 

[jason2459]

Sponges looking a bit better again.

Just call it stubby

 

[jason2459]

And some bubbletip loving

 

[jedimaster1138]

Following this thread. I put an 8x8x4 in my sump this past weekend as I was tired of carbon dosing, but still want more bio-filtration and lower nutrients. I actually had a Triton I never used, so I sent that out BEFORE I put in the MarinePure. So I have a control test too. Next time I see Tritons on sale, I'll grab one for the future and see what's up in a few months, or something.

I don't run GFO or any other phosphate remover and have majorly high phosphate. Some acropora care and barely grow, some don't and crazy stupid fast. Most have good color. No leathers, but a bunch of palythoas including very large colonies of Sunny D and Nuclear Green. Losing those would be...painful, so I'm going to be watching closely. Nitrate is usually anywhere from 0-4ppm, depending on if I remember to manually carbon dose, which I haven't been lately.

Thanks for starting and keeping up with this thread. I'm finding it extremely interesting and useful!

 

[jason2459]

And here are the results.

Al is well over that set point.

Salinity calculates out to 34.49. With their new site I can't zoom out.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This last result is tank water after the block was in how long?
And aluminum before adding it was what? (I know if is probably in the thread, but it is getting long )

 

[jason2459]

This last result is tank water after the block was in how long?
And aluminum before adding it was what? (I know if is probably in the thread, but it is getting long )

Before was listed as 0
Block in 1 month.

I'll write up a summary shortly.

 

[jason2459]

Conclusion and Summary:
The understanding from the manufacturer is that the MarinePure media does not leach any Aluminum into fresh or saltwater systems. That it is completely inert, is 100% safe, and will not alter the aquarium's chemistry at all.

http://www.cermedia.com/marinepure-faq.php

From the FAQ:
"What is MarinePure made of and will it leach anything into my water?

MarinePure is an inert aluminosilicate ceramic that has been fired over 1000°C. It will not leach into tank or pond water."

"Will MarinePure ROCK affect my water chemistry?

No, MarinePure ROCK is made from an inert ceramic. It has no effect on the water chemistry. One caveat, it also does not add beneficial calcium that some reefers desire."

Lets start with some basic before numbers of which I was going into it just concentrating on Al and not so much the nutrients PO4 and NO3 as I did not and have not had issues with either of them and they were already to low for my taste.

Before adding the block:
PO4:
Hanna 736 ULR: 3ppb and 0.009198 ppm converted
Triton: 3.15 µg/l and 0.010 mg/l converted

Nitrates:
Red Sea/Salifert/API/Nyos: 0 (undetectable)

Al:
Triton: 0 µg/l (has been under 2 µg/l, Triton's set point, in every test result from Triton I've done)

After 1 month with the block in place:
PO4:
Hanna: 5ppb Phosphorus or 0.01533ppm Phosphates converted.
Triton: 6.59 µg/l and 0.020 mg/l converted

Nitrates:
Red Sea/Salifert/Nyos: ~2.5mg/L

Al:
Triton: 19.15 µg/l (do not know what form this is in fyi)

During this entire month I maintained my vinegar/vodka dosing, skimming, and 1% daily water changes. I did not run or use anything else that could export anything.


After taking the sample water for Triton I placed in the Marine Pure block in my sump in a low flow area. Several odd events occurred the following day and days after that. Which for my tank change is very easy for me to see as I note pretty much any change I do to my tank since I stood it up in a tank journal and any reactions my tank has. I feel I've gotten pretty good at observations of cause and effect in my system but at the same time know there is room for error and of course always learning.

Effects that were noted after placing in the block:

1. Fiji Leather Coral quickly looked irritated and shrunk
2. Duncan retracted
3. One of my Bubble tips split (otherwise they looked great the entire time)
4. A single drastic short term drop in pH
5. All my sponges "shed" and shrunk

My Fiji Yellow Leather has not had full polyp extension the entire time the block was in place. It took over 2 weeks before it would start looking somewhat ok. The Duncan recovered fairly quickly. The sponges slowly started growing again.

Some of that I believe can be explained by a quick large growth of bacteria in the media (Duncan retracting and quick pH drop). But the longer term effects on the Fiji Leather I believe are more directly related to the Block and the Al content. I still don't know about the sponge if its directly but at least is indirectly related.

After this one month period I did move all my sump equipment to a new location and sump. I also went ahead and moved the MarinePure block over a couple days after the sump was already running doing a quick rinse in tank water from the old sump. I believe this swishing and draining of the block exported quite a bit of bacteria and the act of moving it released some more fines from the media it seems as I noted the following again after placing the block in the new sump.

1. Fiji leather Coral quickly looking irritated and shrunk.
2. Duncan retracted
3. A single drastic short term drop in pH
4. All my sponges "shed" and shrunk

I do not believe it to be coincidence but a direct relation to placing the Marine Pure block into the system.




As a side note there was one other unexpected event that occurred. Which was my Nitrates increased during this time. My phosphates did also slightly but with in what they normally trend. My nitrates trended much higher then normal in the after results.

Link to that post when I found my nitrates increasing including a chart showing the ramp up.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/h...t-leach-lets-guess.247034/page-8#post-2962938

Just found it interesting and humorous but not concerning as this is also in the manufacturers FAQ. I did have the block in a low flow area...

"I know MarinePure is effective at removing Ammonia and Nitrites, but will it remove Nitrates?

MarinePure Blocks do an excellent job in supporting bacteria which remove ammonia and nitrite. Bacteria based Nitrate removal is a little more difficult as it is very system dependent. Any media for this purpose needs to be in an anoxic environment (very low oxygen) and have a carbon source available. These conditions are dependent on systems bio-loads and flow rates. Our blocks are thick so the oxygen in the water passing through the block can be consumed before entering the middle of the block. We recommend placing the media in a passive or low flow area for the best opportunity to remove Nitrates. "

 

[FarmerTy]

Thank you for your observations and detailed reporting. It's a shame that the sump was replaced and moved during the experiment as it would have been nice to keep the controls of the experiment the same throughout to minimize external variables but we're not talking a lab controlled experiment here but a real life applied experiment so we can't be too picky.

Great work and great reporting. I'm sure plenty will find the information useful.

 

[jason2459]

Thank you for your observations and detailed reporting. It's a shame that the sump was replaced and moved during the experiment as it would have been nice to keep the controls of the experiment the same throughout to minimize external variables but we're not talking a lab controlled experiment here but a real life applied experiment so we can't be too picky.

Great work and great reporting. I'm sure plenty will find the information useful.

Nothing was changed at all during that 1 month period. The move was after and I believe reinforced the changes to my tank as being associated to the Block.

 

[FarmerTy]

Nothing was changed at all during that 1 month period. The move was after.

I must have misread then. So the results from the "after" triton test was indicative of a pre-sump move?

 

[jason2459]

I must have misread then. So the results from the "after" triton test was indicative of a pre-sump move?

Yes. And the Al may have been higher if I didn't do 1% daily water changes and skimmer turned off which exported about a cup a day.

 

[FarmerTy]

And when did the nitrates start trending upwards? After the sump move? Or did it already start prior to that?

I'm curious the average timeframe that denitrifying bacteria starts to colonize. I know nitrifying bacteria colonizes pretty quick.

 

[reef_ranch]

That is much lower than I expected. My aluminum tested in the high 30s to low 50s when I had 3 blocks in my sump. It certainly appears that the block caused the increase.

As for the nitrate reduction, I have concluded from my use and reading others' experiences that it takes a good 60 days to colonize effectively to reduce nitrates. Same with Siporax. So I'm not surprised by your nitrate findings.

 

[jason2459]

And when did the nitrates start trending upwards? After the sump move? Or did it already start prior to that?

I'm curious the average timeframe that denitrifying bacteria starts to colonize. I know nitrifying bacteria colonizes pretty quick.

All test results were before the sump move. The sump move is noted as After the 1 month period was ended.

 

[jason2459]

That is much lower than I expected. My aluminum tested in the high 30s to low 50s when I had 3 blocks in my sump. It certainly appears that the block caused the increase.

As for the nitrate reduction, I have concluded from my use and reading others' experiences that it takes a good 60 days to colonize effectively to reduce nitrates. Same with Siporax. So I'm not surprised by your nitrate findings.

And the Al may have been higher if I didn't do 1% daily water changes and skimmer turned off which exported about a cup a day.

As for nitrates, I did not expect any increase at all. My system has been up since 2009 and has maintained very low and undetectable nitrates almost the entire time. Even when I have had high PO4 problems.